Wednesday, January 25, 2012

A Hindu view - Rama from Buddha, or Buddha from Rama?

Uthaya Sankar SB wrote an interesting article about the Ramayana in Free Malaysia Today titled Ramayana: Valmiki vs Hanuman, and in Bahasa too.

I enjoyed reading it but I need to correct him on one point, to wit, the 2nd of the following 2 paragraphs:

Sesungguhnya, Ramayana adalah epik India yang tersebar luas ke seluruh dunia, khususnya sebagai tindak balas terhadap penyebaran agama Buddha secara meluas semasa pemerintahan Asoka di India.

Apa yang menarik, penganut ajaran Buddha pula membuat sedikit pengubah suaian dan mengatakan bahawa Rama adalah inkarnasi Siddharta Gautama Buddha.

Uthaya Sankar has been completely incorrect in the above 2nd paragraph, that Buddhists claimed Rama was a reincarnation of the Buddha. One only needs to read numerous credible books on this issue and find it’s actually the other way around, of Hindus claiming that Buddha was an avatar of Vishnu (born as mortal Rama to destroy Ravana).

Besides, Buddhists have never associated nor linked their religious beliefs with/to Hinduism, whether of the Ramayana, Mahabharata or whatever version - Buddhist beliefs do not ever place reliance on God or Gods, as Hinduism does.

At that time, Buddhism was sweeping India (as aknowledged by Uthaya Sankar) where multitudes of Hindus were converting across to a caste-less, gentle and compassionate religion, as they would centuries later to an also caste-less Islam.

The Hindu clerics were sh*t scared (not unlike UMNO leaders today, wakakaka) of a tired but very caste-conscious Hinduism losing most of its adherents, so they preached falsely that Buddha was only an avatar of Vishnu, implying Hinduism still was THE only religion and Buddhism only a subset of it. And they succeeded in stemming the tide of Buddhist convertees.


  1. Wow!!..KTemoc..your knowledge concerning Buddha is 101% correct.
    Buddha is the reformist of his country's racism and corruptions.
    No way is Buddha a reincarnation of any Hindu gods.
    He is so reborn as human for him.
    He belongs to the seventh heaven...which living idiots can never understand.

  2. Buddha never claim to be a God.
    He was a great teacher for 45 years.
    You can say...Buddha is closest to Confucius of China.
    True Buddhists do not pray to him as a God.
    They bow and pay RESPECT to their great teacher....same to Kuan Yin Ma and Avalokristavala...and many many more to to Mother Teresa.
    In that sense...Buddhists and Hindus have many similarities.
    They do not believe in one God...the Almighty...the creator of all living things...including flies and rats.
    They believe in godly people...thousands of them...mostly dead..and then recognized as one.
    Maybe Monsterball will be recognized as one...when I am dead..who know.....hahahahahahaha

  3. You allegory is not accurate. The Buddha as inspired by the story of Prince Siddharta is not the original pro-pounder of this belief system known as Sankhya School of Thought in Sanathana Dharma (what you call Hinduism)

    Ever heard the name Kapila Acharya? He is the Buddha of The Vishnu Avatar.

    He is the Buddha that Siddharta took his learnings from.

    The Prince was adhering to a system well accepted in Vedic Dharma, that there is a law that determines everything in the universe which will (G)enerate, (O)rganise and (D)estroy.

    So u see the Buddha understood GOD better than any of us....

    These basis of Vedic teachings are the foundation of the political system expounded by Siddharta's disciples today known as Buddhism.
    A little knowledge is always dangerous.....

    Monsterball and ketemoc need to go and meditate and ....pray that the Buddha will enlighten them. Kah... Kah...kah....

  4. Sorry I don't agree with you and your postulation, which I see as basically another attempt to make Buddhism a branch of Hinduism wakakaka.

    For a start, Siddharta Gotama found enlightment by himself after experiencing and experimenting with extremes (repectively as a Prince and then as an ascetic).

    Secondly, Buddhism (and Jainism) came from non-Vedic stream, known as the Shramana movement.

    In Buddhism there is no Creator God or for that matter, God personality as found in the Abrahamic religions or Hinduism, nor can personal enlightment (or to use a Christian word, salvation) be found in any being (God etc) but only one's self through one's own efforts. In other words, Orthodox buddhists consider gods as irrelevant - sorry, don't mean to hurt anyone but just stating a Buddhist belief.

    Unlike Hinduism, deva's & devi's in Buddhism were/are merely forms of life, also subject to samsara, the cycle of birth and death. Only difference to us is that they may have supranormal life durations, e.g. they can survive for millions, billions and even zillions of years.

    Even the concept of rebirth in Buddhism is different from that of Hinduism. It's deflating to the human ego (self) because it's not like Hinduism's unique atman (soul) for an individual.

    But as I mentioned, Hindus from yonder years, for political, economic, social and preservation of faith reasons had tried stenuously to make Gotama Buddha an avatar of Vishnu, and Buddhism a subset of Hinduism.

    Even other religions like some Christian Churches had tried to connect Jesus and Buddha, or even claimed Buddhist teachings as those of Christianity.

    There is a religion called Mahakari which claims its founder-God to be the Maitreya Buddha but its teachings are unlike the Buddhist 'gods are irrelevant' approach.

    The best way, though not theologically correct, to distinguish Buddhism from other religions like Hinduism is that Buddhism is virtually atheism (though I need to stress that theologically, it's an over simplification).

  5. Only by self realising the Truth will the Truth be known....the rest are semantics, which leads to ego which distorts the Truth...the Ego also wants to control others..that is politics...that is Maya

    Meditate on the Truth and only on the Truth and when you reach there let me know.......OM SHANTHI.

  6. All smart asses talking 2500 history...through reading..where the smartest of the lot is in fact.. "Capt Sudhir"
    The Singer..not the Song.
    If the Singer is cunning and matter how good the song and lyrics are....he cannot understand it.

  7. But "Capt Sudhir" is one screw loose too...a religious fanatic....which make the debate on religion will continue till Water Dragon come ..drown some of them...good riddance to bad rubbish.
    I drown...I will pull Buttercup along.

  8. ....the true singer knows that the lyrics are not the essence, it is the SOUND,.... the song has to resonate the 7 basic vibrations,,re,ga,ma,pa,tha,ni... (do,re, me,fa,,ti) if it doesn't...even that song is semantics...kah..kah..kah ...OM SHANTHI

  9. "Meditate on the Truth and only on the Truth and when you reach there let me know.......OM SHANTHI."

    I am absolutely sure the guy selling chapati across the street is Michael Jackson but disguised as a chapati seller. To me that is the Truth ... absolutely, incontrovertibly.

    I've meditated on it long and hard and ... Alayhova catarina woolala!!! ... I have reached there and so, dear Capt, I'm letting you know! Ooom anana shakadila hullala Ombaba!

  10. Buddham saranam gacchami
    Dhammam saranam gacchami
    Sangham saranam gacchami
    Dutiyampi Buddham saranam gacchami
    Dutiyampi Dhammam saranam gacchami
    Dutiyampi Sangham saranam gacchami
    Tatiyampi Buddham saranam gacchami
    Tatiyampi Dhammam saranam gacchami
    Tatiyampi Sangham saranam gacchami

  11. To become a Buddhist one must take refuge in the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha.

  12. 1.Karaniya mattha kusalena
    Yantam santam padam abhi-sameeca
    Sakka uju ca suju ca
    Suvaco cassa muda anatimani
    2.Santussako ca subharo ca
    Appa-kicco ca sallahuka-vutti
    Santindriyo ca nipaka ca
    Appa-gabbho kulesu ananu giddho
    3. Naca khuddham samacare kinci
    Yena vinna pare upava-deyyum
    Sukhino va khenmino hantu
    Sabbe satta bhavantu sukhi-tatta

  13. To know the Truth one needs to be free of prejudices and let the ego go......kah kah kah there goes all the dogma.....

    You can be a Buddhist but cannot be a Buddha..otherwise.

    Truth will be revealed only to those who dare...

    ..and if that chapati seller is who you know he is then ....Hallelujah...Praise the Lord.

    As Lao Tze propounded...

    Those who know will not tell...
    And those who Tell do not know...



  14. While the debate is historically interesting, what difference does it make? Neither religion asks you to believe in a specific entity for salvation and threaten you with eternal hell.

    The cornerstone of both religion is that - if there is life beyond death - it is reincarnation, and not an eternal hell/heaven based on our silly short life on earth/mars/etc.

    (I am Hindu but had changed to Buddhism when I was in a Thai/Burma monastry. Not much difference in core beliefs.)

  15. The strive for knowledge differs from person to person. Some accept it without experience, some experience it to accept it.

    In the very basic essence Sankhya philosophy Promotes man understanding nature at the quantum level.

    Siddharta the Prince had reached the same conclusions from his experience.

    The philosophy was the same.

    The how to teach the masses (from known to unknown) without indoctrinating them in dogma was his biggest challenge. All religion is man made dogma which can be stifling in the quest for one's path to knowledge.

    To have the knowledge of the quantum dynamics of the universe and not be tempted to use it for personal glory is a feat, few can achieve. That is in essence the greatness of Siddharta Gautama Buddha.

    The rest are semantics.



  16. buddha didnt create a seperate religion or sect,he taught the sanatan dharma,somethings he found wrong he disowned them,others he accepted them,buddhists here who consider themselves different have developed an ego which they should shed untill they they will never understand the true dharma

    1. I've already replied above to such Hinduism claims (made by Capt Sudhir). In Buddhism, the concept of god or gods as believed and worshipped in most other religons (with exception of Janaism) are immaterial and irrelevant

    2. it doesnt make a difference actually,as buddha had claimed the existence of gods like sakka and brahma,also in various texts there is mention of avalokiteshwara who resembles vishnu,also there is mention of chundi who gives birth to the buddhas who resembles chanddi in hinduism,all these deities do have a role in the day to day life of the cosmic beings and meditating to them do gives us a sattvic or spiritual aura,if buddhist find this irrelevant they havent studied their religion in depth

    3. Buddhism considers the role of deva and devi (gods) as totally irrelevant to attaining the state of nirvana. In fact in Buddhism, the deva and devi themselves are subjected to samsara, the cycle of birth and death, only perhaps their cycle might take far more years than that for a human. And Buddhist concept of kamma is also different to the Hindu Karma.

      Your views are those of a Hindu, not Buddhist

    4. Yes! In sanatan dharm known as hindu dharm also say the same " deva and devi" are not God. They are Demigod.. they are just more powerful but not God..

      Deva are just like a Guru.. he can help u to atain God.. but we foolish worship them to get material benefit..

      If one wud read shrimad bhagwatam he wud know the reality of sanatan dharma And role of all methods like jainism buddhism Christianity dhyan yog etc..

  17. Hare krishna

    Vedic literature tell us .. journey to understand GOD is very difficult.. it takes time even birth after birth.

    Buddhism is just a step which is told by Buddh( a partial avtaar of God ) according to need of people of that era when "so call hindu" was using vedic literature for peraonal material benefit but not for self realisation..

    When people were not following vedas as it is but just partially following for fullfill their material desire .Buddha cud not get Nirvaan becouse He cud not find right Guru, true Guru- true follower of vedic sanatan dharm.

    He find His way and get nirvaan... but we dont have proof. Anyone judge if He get nirvaan or not.? No
    ! We cant coz we dont know what is nirvaan? But His name is mebtioned in Bhagwatam that means it ia true that he get nirvaan. whatever He got He gave to others..
    So they cud ascend one step more..

    When one meditate, he becomes more calm and accept all thing as it is.. so many mysterious things are here.. so many types of meditation..
    One shud try all before deciding anyone as best.

  18. Opinion and arguments are separate entities. Seek, question, but please don't mock others for their beliefs or feelings. Om.