I have read some readers comments in a couple of online media reports and really, deeply regret the insensitivity in some, where they disgustingly attempted to link the likely accident with Anwar Ibrahim's conviction. Two examples follow:
Anwar's premeditated trial and verdict came to a close yesterday and his faith of whether he will go to jail will be known on Monday 10th March. Karpal's incarceration shall also be known a day later. This weekend, Pakatan has planned a public mass protest. It is not too far-fetched to consider the possibility of this latest plane crash incident as being part of an elaborate orchestrated series of events.
For all the injustice happening in Malaysia, I fear the worst is yet to come. People, especially those in power should understand there is a higher authority that will punish for the sins committed by these sinners. Unfortunately, the country as a whole has to suffer the consequences.
I recall one (could be more) insinuating that the accident could have been due to MAS using bogus spare parts.
It makes me sick to read such tripe, especially the one attributing the by-now-no-doubt air accident to a 'higher authority' punishing 239 innocent people for any alleged sins by the BN in the conviction of Anwar Ibrahim.
On the basis of the moron's argument, I sure would like to meet such a f**king 'higher authority' who has just aimlessly murdered 239 people (a la the Old Testament's god) because of alleged injustice to Anwar Ibrahim, and give that 'higher authority' a f**king piece of my mind.
But rather than speculate on WHY the accident happened, I think we'd be safer and less controversial grounds if we speculate (that is, if we want to) on WHAT could have happened?
One factor stands out clearly and indisputably: the crew did not make contact with either Malaysian or Vietnamese air traffic control (ATC) to inform them of any flight problem.
That can mean a couple of things: (a) they were prevented from doing so, or (b) they didn't have time to do so.
The former is less likely as there are ways and means for the flight deck crew (pilots, and in some bigger aircraft like B747, flight engineer) to communicate with ATC, even when under duress or threat. I can't go any further than this.
Thus I opine that it would have been the latter, that was the flight deck crew (the 2 pilots) didn't have time to do so, because of a few possibilities, namely:
(a) gradual depressurization where they and the rest on board suffered incremental hypoxia (deprivation of sufficient supply of oxygen) without realizing that was happening and thus went into, worst case scenario, unconsciousness followed by death.
Again this seems unlikely as the aircraft would then have continued flying on autopilot even if both pilots were unconscious, until the fuel ran out and the aircraft crashed. MH370 carried enough fuel to reach Beijing plus an extra hour of reserve.
Such a fate happened to a light turboprop aircraft in Australia (I think it was a Beech King Air) which took off from either Perth or Adelaide and ended its fatal pilot-less flight around the Darwin area, as well as to an executive Lear jet in the USA some years ago, in which professional golfer Payne Stewart plus five other people crashed after drifting across the country for hours with the pilot (and all passengers) probably unconscious from hypoxia.
The remaining possibility would be something happening with such swiftness that both pilot were caught unaware with no time to transmit a distress call.
That could occur under the following circumstances:
(a) sudden major structural failure (aircraft breaking up apart) as had happened to a Taiwanese B747 enroute from Taipeh to Hong Kong - for more read about China Airlines Flight 611. But that was a very old B747, unlike MAS' B777 which is only around 11 years old.
(b) both pilots were suddenly incapacitated (shot?), but the aircraft on autopilot would have continued flying unless of course the hijacker flew the aircraft into the ground. What would be the chances of this, considering the door to the flight deck is usually locked to prevent unauthorized access by passengers.
(c) explosion on board, particular near the cockpit area. This could well be the most likely cause for what we have thus far read about the mysterious circumstances surrounding MAS missing MH370n flight.
I have listed some possibilities of WHAT could have happened, but I would advise you dear readers to leave out the cause of divine retribution for any alleged injustice to Anwar Ibrahim, for if you don't you will turn that divine being into a callous clueless cruel murderer of 239 innocent people.
Kaytee,
ReplyDeleteIf you really wanna have empathy towards the victims, for goodness sake, stop being a mullah. Because by doing so, you are as equally as insensitive as those you accuse.
Looking at your reasoning, my assessment is as follows:
a) Your (a) reasoning is a fucking cibai bullshit. What the fuck not preventing from doing so.......You are fucking cibaily insensitive to the DCA, pilots & respective authorities. Fuck you la for even think of coming out with the idea........See when I tell you not to be a mullah
b) Though it's probable that you so called gradual depressurisation may cause the accident, you can't say that they didn't have sufficient time to transmit information to respective authority..
I strongly suggest that before you are yapping, please watch France 447 mishap......Use that as reference before commenting further
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHduB-knlt0
P.S : Some malaysian broadcasters are idiots by comparing this incident with Ladhad Datu incursion......Why no sound from kaytee?
looes, as usual you felt compel to utter some silly words in an area you have little or even no idea about. The danger of gradual depressurization is its stealthy perilous approach where the pilots weren't aware of its happening as in the 2 examples I brought out. Though modern airline-type aircraft are equipped with a warning system against this, it's not improbable for Murphy's Law to strike, where the warning system didn't work..
DeleteFrance 447 was a different kettle of fish where icing caused erroneous airspeed indications leading to a deep stall. Prior to the fatal unrecovered stall the autopilot was disconnected and the flight systems switched to some alternative modes where some protection like the anti-stall protection were lost. The pilots were confused with the lost of reliable airspeed indication and were struggling to recover the aircraft not realizing (until too late) it had already plunged down tens of thousand of feet. Icing had initiated the escalating problems. In MH370 case, there was no reported storm or icing issue.
What Lahad Datu issue could be connected to this? Are you suggesting there was a Filipino terrorist on board? Terrorists by nature of their aim would have claimed responsibility for the crash - have they?
looes, sometimes it's better for you to shut up and let people THINK you're an idiot, rather than open your mouth to issue useless words and let people KNOW you are an idiot
Kaytee,
DeleteDidn't I say use that as a reference. Yours too. Tembak all corners, hoping to strike right. As for the gradual depressurization, you can't say that pilots don't have enough time. Wrong statement!.
As Lahad Datu thingy, ASK THAT FUCKING CIBAI RTM new broadcasters la.....
Kaytee,
I strongly suggest you to emulate your another penang lang, anil netto or shut up! Fucker!
my blog mah so I can write my posts in any way I like, wakakaka. What tembak all corners when it's a methodical process of considering as many possibilities and then eliminating the least likely - haven't you been taught this? Oh, I forgot - you already know every f**king thing thus making you teh cb f*, wakakaka
Deletei share the same feeling when i read some of yr comment on anwar n pkr, n oso helen comment on dap and christian. the interesting part is u people still sober to point out other's sickening mind.
ReplyDeletedid I ever say the Almighty is punishing AI or PKR? AI and PKR have brought most of their problems down on their heads all by themselves
Deletean atheist dun say almighty, the intent n biasness is remain more or less same, the difference i would say is perhaps a matter of degree.
Deleteu read helen n do some soul searchig, she is yr mirror.
however i wish to assert that i am not saying u r wrong, unless u insist that u r objective n impartial.
my mirror? wakakaka I don't sell stale milk lah, wakakaka
DeleteSabotage?
ReplyDeletewho knows? at this stage we can only speculate on WHAT (not WHY) might have happened? Sabotage belongs to the WHY category together with those comments about Divine Retribution for AI's sake.
DeleteWould your speculations help those on the plane ?
ReplyDeleteas I have written, I fear there is little hope now left for any survivor from the missing flight MH370. But speculations (or analysis with more reliable information) on what might have happened can help MAS address potential problems
DeleteMajor structural failure, pilots shot and plane exploded ?
DeleteWouldn't these add unnecessary worries to the next of kins ?
something happened - what? The next of kin would also like to know but not the bullshit about divine retribution regarding Malaysian politics. The media are now saying the same things in a responsible way as I have
DeleteWhen the wreakage of the plane is located and the black box retrieved,then we will all know for certain what actually happened.
ReplyDeletecould well take about 1 year or more
DeleteIf they ever find it, as it is, the authorities don't even know the exact location of the crash. I believe the signal sounds from the black box lasts a week or so.
DeleteWhy has such a thing to happen?
ReplyDeleteTwo men with stolen passports boarded the ill fated flight.Could they be part and parcel of the missing plane?
ReplyDeletedon't know. they could just be drug pushing criminals. I believe the FBI has taken an interest into the possibility they were terrorists - 'were' means they would be mati liao
DeleteLatest: Five passengers checked in their luggage but did not fly MAS MH370. That’s a bit strange. – hasan
ReplyDeleteThat cannot be true.
DeleteOr if its true, MAS and MAHB violated ICAO regulations.
One of the important internationally agreed security rules put in place after the destruction of Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie is the matching of luggage to passengers who actually boarded. The airliner cannot fly with any luggage without the person on board. The airport authority has to send someone into the aircraft cargo hold to remove the offending luggage.
It doesn't stop a suicide bomber, but helps stop the "send a bomb" type of terrorist.
you're right. But those baggage were in fact removed in accordance with procedures.
DeleteR u the one doing the removal?
DeleteOr it's another of yr hearsay, piggybacked on ICAO regulation?
If the boarding of 'unknown' passengers using stolen passports can happened, then the freeloaded luggages, with no owners, onto the plane is a possibility that cant be ruled out.
MAS needs to clarify this quickly - but don't count on it as it has become distinctly clear that MAS/DCA/MAHB have no sense of crisis management as the MH370 debacle drags on!
I read this in one of the Malaysian media reports/ Don't be too eager to condemn MAS staff/ Any suggestion from you on how to locate the missing aircraft?
DeleteMore & more likely, u r writing like yr half anmoh sifu!
DeleteWasnt u the one that keep emphasizing 'WHAT' rather than 'WHY' that caused the mishap?
U do pretend to have short memory!
Nobody is too eager to condemn ANYBODY & yet the truth of the matter is the sloppiness in MAS/DCA/MAHB have no sense of crisis management, This comes out fast & clear in ALL their official press release, as compared with the Asiana incident in San Francisco International Airport (SFO).
The biggest blunder was the closed to 5 hrs delay in acknowledging the 'accident'. The subsequent coordination was pathetic to say the least, as if NO LIFE was involved.
As far as this - 'Any suggestion from you on how to locate the missing aircraft?' - u r VERY childish to even suggest that!
Hello there, this is the area of aviation SAR experts, not any TOM & Jerry. Definitely no KT!
Perhaps, yr own words - 'What tembak all corners when it's a methodical process of considering as many possibilities and then eliminating the least likely - haven't you been taught this? Oh, I forgot - you already know every f**king thing thus making you teh cb f*, wakakaka' - fits u in this rant to the dot, NO?
In any such aviation situation where an aircraft has been deemed to be "missing", as aviation experts will tell you, there would be stages of escalating the alert.
DeleteThe initial stage is known as INCERTFA - When the monitoring authority (Air Traffic Control or ATC) believes a situation has occurred where doubts exists about the safety of an aircraft, and which needs close monitoring and with more information to be acquired. This would occur when an aircraft is reported overdue at a reporting point (like handover to Vietnamese ATC).
The next phase is ALERTFA when the doubts as above has developed into concerns or the operating efficiency of the aircraft has been believed to be impaired though not to the extent of requiring immediate assistance or imminent danger. At this stage. SAR resources usually initiate communication searches and make preparations to search.
The final stage is DETRESFA or the distress phase where there is now certainty that the aircraft is in imminent danger, and where communication and other forms of investigation have failed (like checking with Nanning airport where it was rumoured MH370 had landed or any likely Vietnamese airports where it might have. Usually, in the absence of any reliable information like a distress call (either by MH370 or a relay from another aircraft or ship) or a found crash site (whether on land or sea) the DETRESFA will declared at the end of the aircraft’s fuel endurance.
All this takes time - maybe even 5 hours or more. Aviation authority don't make knee jerk reactions to the way you want to, because they don''t have the advantage of armchair hindsight like you do. They don't press the alarm bell PREMATURELY and scare the shit off everyone's pants especially the NOK of the passengers and crew. There have been cases where such premature and false alarms had been more harmful than helpful. All these incremental action stages have been distilled from years of experience shared worldwide. There are set procedures to be followed which include cross checking with various authorities along the route of MH370 (to wit, Vietnam, China).
That MAS and the DCA have even scoured the Straits of Malacca has been an indication they covered every possibility including the highly unlikely probability of MH370 flying in the opposite direction, not when it's equipped with modern navigational aids and that it was reported over the South China Sea off our peninsula east coast. But desperate for information, they did the desperate act. Already dozens of search aircraft and ships are searching the are and it's only today that Vietnamese authorities claimed its navy has found fragments believed to be the composite inner door and tail section of the B777 about 50 miles south-southwest of Tho Chu island.
But let us face it - you just want to hentam saja for what I suspect to unrelated grievances.
Since u r SO damn expert in aviation missing plane procedure, let hear from u about the timeline of a similar event - missing Air France Flight 447, from Rio de Janeiro to Paris over Atlantic ocean. But do better than Wikipedia, ok?
DeleteFrom Wikipedia;
Flight 447 was due to pass from Brazilian airspace into Senegalese airspace at approximately 02:20 (UTC), and then into Cape Verdean airspace at approximately 03:45. Shortly after 04:00, when the flight had failed to contact air traffic control in either Senegal or Cape Verde, the controller in Senegal attempted to contact the aircraft. When he received no response, he asked the crew of another Air France flight (AF459) to try to contact AF447; this also met with no success.[56]
After further attempts to contact flight 447 were unsuccessful, an aerial search for the missing Airbus commenced from both sides of the Atlantic. Brazilian Air Force aircraft from the archipelago of Fernando de Noronha and French reconnaissance aircraft based in Dakar, Senegal led the search.[57] They were assisted by a Casa 235 maritime patrol aircraft from Spain[58] and a US Navy Lockheed Martin P-3 Orion anti-submarine warfare and maritime patrol aircraft.[59][60]
By early afternoon on 1 June, officials with Air France and the French government had already presumed that the aircraft had been lost with no survivors. An Air France spokesperson told L'Express that there was "no hope for survivors",[61][62][63] and French President Nicolas Sarkozy told relatives of the passengers that there was only a minimal chance that anyone survived.
So from the reported lost contact at 0400 1st June till early afternoon 1st June - a duration of 12 hours (assuming early afternoon was 1400) - a series of proper crisis management procedure had taken place & conclusion drawn. In fact SAR was activated just after a series of failed in-flight contacts (in KT's time frame, this would take days)!
Now back to MH370, how long was it taken to acknowledge the missing & when was the coordination for SAR been coordinated?
Say something relevant lah!
I take strong offense for yr last statement - But let us face it - you just want to hentam saja for what I suspect to unrelated grievances.
U r indirectly hinting that I'm angry bcoz of the Anwar Fitnah2 case.
Suffice to say that I'm not - as I had said many time before that if the majority blur-sotongs would accept a capable person, whom there r many outside of their race, then AI was not necessary to be in the lead.
In this time of great grievances, correct infos is important while quick & decisive action could save lives! Thus COMPETENCY in crisis management is top most requirement.
U r just trying to imitate yr sifu for subtle psychological diversion, for question that u CANT answer & dont like & yet have to accept for publication just to satisfy yr vainglorious self-ego!
One more thing, while lives were been wasted, important time & required real effort were been diverted to this;
DeleteThat MAS and the DCA have even scoured the Straits of Malacca has been an indication they covered every possibility including the highly unlikely probability of MH370 flying in the opposite direction, not when it's equipped with modern navigational aids and that it was reported over the South China Sea off our peninsula east coast.
Desperate indeed, so tembak EVERYWHERE!
MH370 could ONLY be lost in the Strait of Malacca IFF it was been hijacked by UFO!
Another sign of 'top-class' crisis management that been sneered & laughed at by all SAR experts (the real one) ALL OVER THE WORLD.
What's the significance in a factual inconsistency between what CEO of MAS said that MH370 dropped out of the radar at 0240 and what live air traffic trackers have said that the plane dropped of the radar at 0130? The correctness of live air traffic trackers is corroborated by the pilot of another plane flying half an hour ahead saying that he established contact with the pilot of MH370 at 0128 and thereafter lost contact. Now we have RMAF Chief saying military radar indicated MH370 could have turned around?
ReplyDeleteHow does lay people interpret these factual inconsistencies and uncorroborated opinions?
in an accident of this magnitude with scarce information available to MAS or the DCA, and with pressure from the families of those lost and also from the public, there's bound to be confusion - I have witnessed this in post accidents of other airlines.
DeleteIncidentally, the pilot of another plane flying half an hour ahead saying this & that (and claiming to know the pilots of MH370) is now in doubt as he had insisted on remaining anonymous, and the MAS CEO has repudiated the suggestion another MAS pilot was in contact with MH370
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteI have deleted above comment as it has no connection with the topic of this post
ReplyDeleteI feel very frustrated with MAS's crisis management.
ReplyDeleteThere was no information available to family members in the early hours, as the plane failed to turn up in Beijing.
Too many things, true or untrue have turned up in websites first, then only confirmed later by the authorities.
I don't directly know anyone who was on board the plane, but I know people in the PJ company which lost 20 people on the flight. It has been a devastating to them.
The plot thickens....
ReplyDeletehttp://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/internal-probe-on-immigration-department-says-home-minister
Two stolen passports. Two air tickets booked at the same time.
CCTV shows two who looked Asian, with Italian and Austrian passports, and never raised any flags.
Boeing 777 aircraft disappears in mid-air, pilot was not able to send out any Mayday call....either did not have the time , or was somehow prevented from doing so....
@Anonymous 10:06am
ReplyDeleteIf we're comparing with the Air France 447 incident, one should also fully understand what happened at the time when that happened, and look at actual timelines of that incident. Doing a quick google, e.g. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8077304.stm you can see that it took them about 8 hours before announcing that Air France 447 is missing, and this is with the plane having flown into a thunderstorm, and transmitting warnings and malfunction data out. Granted, things may have been mobilised quicker, but it's not like it wasn't mobilised that much quicker than it is in the case of MH370.
Mind you, the biggest problem faced by SAR for MH370 is the sudden disappearance of the plane without any communications, no transponder information, no ELT, no ACARS nothing indicating a problem....no one knows where the plane is at all. This is after 2 days of search where the last point of contact is even.
Misinformation didn't help thing with reports of it landing in Nanning, premature statements from Vietnam saying it's crashed when they have no idea, reporting of multiple objects when they've mostly been proven to not be related to MH370.
U r not focus about the issue at hand.
DeleteCrisis announcement to the public CAN be delayed BUT SAR CANNOT.
AF447's SAR was almost immediate after the failed multiple in-flight contacts. Whereas, MH370 - using DCA's terminology searching would commence only after first light!
It should have been conducted the moment another flight confirmed that it couldnt contact MH370 & reported back to the Vietnamese Air Control Tower.
MH370's SAR response SHOULD follow AF447's, which were professionally executed. In fact, as u mentioned AF447 was facinga a worst weather condition whereas, for MH370, the weather is all clear!
Another thing, if a professional crisis management team is at hand, then all reports COULD be verified, coordinated & issued officially. Instead, there were only ad hoc & chaotic handling of the situations. Thus rumors flied all over the MH370 incident.
Back to the point of focusing - clearly the people handling this crisis were inexperienced/lost thus contributing to valuable time lost.
This is a good take of the situation;
http://www.malaysia-today.net/mh370-long-due-questions/
What actually happened during AF447 would only be really known to those following the event as it happened, you can check different sources and you can see that the SAR didn't happen immediately but only after the confirmations or following their protocols, or even the same protocols as MH370 ( In AF447's case it happens a few hours after ). Using your example, SAR didn't start for AF447 until there were multiple confirmations, and even then it took them a while longer before mounting their search, not only after another flight confirmed and reported back to 1 other air control tower.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest difference is because there is some final message showing distress for AF447, compared to there being nothing in the case of MH370. Right now we have the benefit of hindsight so we can say things should be done sooner, but when it was happening no one would have a clue, and they would just have to follow the protocol.
We can bring all sorts of other things into this, the handling etc and all, but right now the mere fact is this:
No one knows where the plane is after 3 days, no one knows what happened to it.
That's the biggest issue at hand. Scrambling the SAR sooner or later, crisis management etc, I would think when you have no information after 3 days of searching even the professional crisis management team would be hard pressed to handle this other than saying, "We have no information". Therein lies the problem of rumours flying all over because there is no information to be had, so people will start grasping at straws for the faintest information related to things ( You should see the conspiracy theory about Freescale, and the backers causing this .... )