Monday, August 27, 2007

God's American Prophet

"And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword"
- (Deuteronomy 20:13)

Thought I might start with a wee Old Testatment comforting words on such a religious matter.

In my previous post Malaysian Christian Taliban? I expressed my shock at one Steve Oh making such a drastic attack in his letter to malaysiakini on a marginalised group, the gay community.

Oh had spat out venomously: "My second matter relates to the attempts to turn Christianity into some kind of gay circus. The apologists and ‘spinmeisters’ for a gay church paint those who oppose their heresy as unthinking, unkind and uncool Christians who don't know what they are opposing."

"... gay church ..."?

If Steve Oh had taken pains to read a malaysiakini news report on Ouyang Wen Feng, his so-called Christian eyes might have read that Ouyang "... hopes to become a member of the clergy in 2010 and plans to set up a Christian gay community by then."

That was that - (1) Ouyang wants to be a cleric, (2) he plans to set up a Christian gay community!

Steve Oh had allowed his narrow mind to leap to prejudiced conclusion that Ouyang wants to be a cleric only for gays. Well, balderdash, bullsh*t and bugger off. His invincible homophobia is in sheer conflict with Christian values, which he professed to be protecting.


It's people like Steve Oh who gives Christianity a bad Taliban-ish name. Yes, Taliban-ism is not just a monopoly of Muslim fanatics. Unfortunately religious extremism and intolerance exist in Christianity, Judaism (Rabbi Yousef Falay, Baruch Goldstein), Hinduism (whose fanatics burned alive an Australian Christian missionary and his children in a car in India), etc.

Back to Steve Oh's homophobia - In Australia, one of the most respected judges, a man held in high esteem and affection by the public, is Michael Kirby, who has been open about his homosexuality since 1999, when he outed himself in Australia's Who's Who by naming newsagent Johan van Vloten as his long-term partner.

Wikipedia has Judge Kirby saying: "The movement for equality is unstoppable. Its message will eventually reach the four corners of the world."

One of Kirby's most high-profile critics is Liberal senator Bill Heffernan, a close lieutenant of PM John Howard. In 2002, Heffernan used parliamentary privilege to accuse Kirby of trawling for rent boys. However, the evidence Heffernan produced to support this claim was swiftly discovered to be a forgery.

When Heffernan eventually apologised for these allegations, Kirby promptly responded: "I accept Senator Heffernan's apology and reach out my hand in a spirit of reconciliation. I hope my ordeal will show the wrongs that hate of homosexuals can lead to."

And I hope Steve Oh may regain his Christian tolerance and love that his Saviour had imparted to him through Christian teachings.

Also in my previous post on issue, I made the statement:

And I would tell Steve Oh to stop speaking on behalf of God, who incidentally has refused to talk to anyone since Yeshua ben Yusuf died on the cross for humanity, including unfortunately Steve Oh and his ilk.

Well, visitor Anon No 1 to my blog left a comment complaining that I overdid/sensationalise my criticism by describing Oh as a Christian Taliban, to which I replied:

The term Taliban has come to signify anyone religiously intolerant. KT doesn't like such intolerant bullies, regardless of their religious affiliation. So the tiltle is not sensational but rather, quite appropriate.

Then Anon No 2 (can't tell whether he/she is same Anon - doesn't matter) said: KT claims he/she doesn't like "intolerant bullies", but KT himself/herself insults Christian experience by claiming that God "has refused to talk to anyone" since the crucifixion. why can't KT practise tolerance before railing against others?

Well, Anon, according to Judeo-Christian beliefs, God only talks to/through his prophets – any Christian prophets since Christ?

But wait - actually I was wrong on two counts.

One, I was of course referring to the Christian world which I failed to qualify, though the title of my posting was clear it was about a Christian Taliban - I’ll come back to the Christian world shortly. In the Islamic world, the last prophet was of course Prophet Mohamad (pbuh) who came after Jesus Christ (peace also be unto his name).

Two, I could be wrong on a second count in suggesting that there were no more Christian prophet after Christ.

Actually there is one modern day prophet and he lives in the USA. His name is Pat Robertson, a Christian evangelist. Robertson tells his parish that God talks to him, regularly too, which I suppose makes him a modern day Christian prophet.
I don’t know how I could have missed him because I had blogged on him several times, as follows:

(1) Bush Condones US Talibans
(2)
Evangelist called Prophet Muhammad a Robber & Brigand
(3)
Christian Evangelist says "Kill Chavez!"
(4)
Terrorist State Harbouring Terrorists?
(5)
US evangelists: "Screw democracy"

There is an article in mediamatters.org/items/200501040010 (sorry, can’t give you the link in my usual way because I am using a friend’s PC and while I can google with it, I can’t open the google link except via the cached info). Anyway, here’s the cached article:

On the January 3 edition of Christian Broadcasting Network's The 700 Club, Reverend Pat Robertson, host and Christian Coalition of America founder, made predictions for the New Year based on what he said God told him during a recent prayer retreat.


Robertson said that God told him: "I will remove judges from the Supreme Court quickly, and their successors will refuse to sanction the attacks on religious faith."

Robertson also said that he "heard it from the Lord" that President Bush will have Social Security and tax reform passed and that Muslims will turn to Jesus Christ.

Robertson currently features on his official website, under the heading "Operation Supreme Court Freedom", a
letter released following the June 2003 U.S. Supreme Court decision in Lawrence v. Texas that decriminalized homosexual sodomy.


"... decriminalized homosexual sodomy ..."? Good Lord (excuse my blasphemy), surely that will drive Steve Oh berserk!

In the letter, Robertson asked his supporters to pray for liberal U.S. Supreme Court Justices to retire: "Would you join with me and many others in crying out to our Lord to change the Court? ... One justice is 83 years old, another has cancer, and another has a heart condition.
Would it not be possible for God to put it in the minds of these three judges that the time has come to retire? With their retirement and the appointment of conservative judges, a massive change in federal jurisprudence can take place."

When asked to clarify his remarks, according to a July 17 Associated Press
report, Robertson said that "he was not talking about any particular Supreme Court justices when he asked his television audience to pray that three liberal justices retire."


Robertson stated: "I don't care which three, I mean as long as the three conservatives stay on. ... There's six liberals, so it's up to the Lord." The AP also noted: "Justice John Paul Stevens was born in 1920 [making him 83 at the time of Robertson's remarks] and Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg had colon cancer surgery in 1999."

"... as long as the three conservatives stay on. ... There's six liberals, so it's up to the Lord ..." There you are - who says he is biased.

On the 700 Club broadcast, Robertson touted his 2004 New Year's prediction that President George W. Bush would win re-election by "a blowout" as an example of a past prediction that turned out to be correct.

On January 2, 2004, Robertson stated: "I think George Bush is going to win in a walk. I really believe I'm hearing from the Lord it's going to be like a blowout election in 2004. It's shaping up that way."

As Media Matters for America has noted, Bush's margin of victory was the smallest for a reelected incumbent president since Woodrow Wilson in 1916.

Other Robertson predictions have fared less well. According to a February 15, 1988, Washington Post article, Robertson said, "I heard the Lord saying 'I have something else for you to do. I want you to run for president of the United States.'"

The same article noted that during one campaign stop during the 1988 presidential race, Robertson stated: "This is where God wanted me to be. ... Here I am in New Hampshire, before a major primary."

He then said, "I assure you that I am going to be the next president of the United States," according to a February 15 Washington Post article. After trailing George H.W. Bush and Senator Bob Dole in the Republican primaries, Robertson's 1988 presidential campaign ended before the Republican convention.

A February 2004
article in Church & State magazine (published by Americans United for Separation of Church and State) noted several Robertson predictions that turned out to be false, including that Russia would invade Israel in 1982, and that there would be a worldwide economic collapse in 1985.


The article went on to mention that "In his 1991 book, The New World Order, Robertson predicted that U.S. Sen. Jay Rockefeller would be elected president in 1996."

Robertson's predictions for 2005:

The economy: "Again, 2005 is going to be a year of extraordinary prosperity for this nation and for CBN [Christian Broadcasting Network]. And I think the American stock market is going to surge upward, if I heard from the Lord. Again, ladies and gentlemen, don't go and buy stock on my recommendation, but that's what I feel in my heart. The Lord was saying it's going to be a super good year."

George W. Bush: "Well, the Lord has some very encouraging news for George Bush ... What I heard is that Bush is now positioned to have victory after victory and that his second term is going to be one of triumph, which is pretty strong stuff. ... He'll have Social Security reform passed. He'll have tax reform passed. He'll have conservative judges on the courts. And that basically he is positioned for a series of dramatic victories which I hope will hearten him and his advisers. They don't have to be timid in this matter because the wind is blowing at his back, and he can move forward boldly and get results."

Muslims and others turning to Jesus Christ: "In America, again if I'm hearing God right, we will see a tremendous incident of miracles in the year 2005. ... God's spirit is going to be moving in dramatic power around the world. And his spirit is going to be touching the hearts of many in the Muslim world and they will be turning to the gospel, to Jesus Christ. I think many of them already are, but this is going to be an acceleration that will really amaze the world. ... 'Revival will break out throughout the Muslim world, my [God's] truth will penetrate their hearts. The hold of that falsehood that has gripped them will be broken.'"
Terrorism and global security: "2005 will be another good year for the world. The terrorist threat will diminish. Nations will walk in peace, but it will be an illusion. The peril to Israel is greater now than it has ever been for she will be seduced into a false peace that will leave her vulnerable."


The Supreme Court: "The vendetta against religion in America is about to end. ... 'I [God] will remove judges from the Supreme Court quickly and their successors will refuse to sanction the attacks on religious faith.'"

I apologise for forgetting God's greatest Christian prophet ;-)


And if you think Pat Robertson is the only one devoted to God, think again because some Israeli military people believed in the Deuteronomic punishment for Palestinians

God related matter:
Let there by Darkness & Ignorance!


p/s Today I read that Mother Teresa had dark moments in her life which shook her faith in God - hmmm, I wonder whether she was exasperated with God for not striking down a charlatan prophet like Pat Robertson. ;-)

8 comments:

  1. KT,thank you for mentioning Justice Michael Kirby. I have had the honour and pleasure of working with him and I can tell you that he's one of the finest kindest people I have ever known, completely compassionate towards everyone regardless of whether they agree with him or not.He might frown at my saying this but in my book that makes him a good Christian and/or a good Muslim.

    And thanks for reminding us that Pat Robertson, who controls media and George Bush, is much scarier than Osama Bin Laden hiding in a cave.

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  2. KT Mock wrote:
    Well, Anon, according to Judeo-Christian beliefs, God only talks to/through his prophets – any Christian prophets since Christ?

    But wait - actually I was wrong on two counts.

    One, I was of course referring to the Christian world which I failed to qualify, though the title of my posting was clear it was about a Christian Taliban - I’ll come back to the Christian world shortly. In the Islamic world, the last prophet was of course Prophet Mohamad (pbuh) who came after Jesus Christ (peace also be unto his name).

    Two, I could be wrong on a second count in suggesting that there were no more Christian prophet after Christ.
    ---------------------

    Hello Kay Tee,

    I am a Christian, a fairly informed one, I hope.

    I think you would agree that when a man is unable to represent a religion accurately, it would be wise for him to abstain from making statements about that religion. This is reasonable.

    I hope you find time to read the comments below. I have read yours.
    Incidentally, you raised a very interesting subject, which have very serious consequences.

    I don't know how acquainted you are with the teachings of the Bible, which is the sole authority for the beliefs and practices of the Christian religion. I suggest that you go to the Bible if you wish to be soundly informed about the revelation of God for man, His creature. There has to be an agreed standard and authority if we wish to talk about Christianity... and that's standard is the Bible.

    It would be very helpful for you NOT to be distracted by all the QUACKS out there... or should I say, FALSE prophets, that claim God speaks to them. God has given His final word through His Son, the God-Man Jesus Christ. After that He has nothing more to say... all that needed to be said HAS BEEN SAID. There is no longer need for prophets nor apostles. The answer is, "NO prophet (in the technical sense) since Christ."

    There is NO MORE prophet after Christ. The Bible states this truth in the plain and emphatic manner.
    Hebrews 1:
    1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
    3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
    4 ¶ Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

    John the Baptist was the last and final prophet (in its technical sense), those through whom God communicated His revelation to His people.
    Matt 11:13: "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John."
    Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

    Any who claim to be God's prophets (channel of divine revelation) after John the Baptist is making false claim, and are false prophets that are constantly condemned by in the Bible.

    Jesus Christ is far more than the prophet. He is the Son of the eternal God, being Divine and human at the same time. God has spoken to His people by His Son. He has NO MORE use for prophets. Any who claim to be God's prophets (channel of divine revelation) after Jesus Christ making false claim, and are false prophets that are constantly condemned by in the Bible.

    The final revelation of God to Jesus Christ has been committed to His apostles, from whom we have the New Testament of the Bible.

    Matt 11
    27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
    28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
    29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
    30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

    Matt 28
    18 And Jesus came and spake unto them (the Apostles), saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

    There are also NO MORE Apostles after the original band of Apostles passed away in the first century.

    2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

    2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

    1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

    These FALSE APOSTLES and FALSE PROPHETS and their blind followers are causers of so much scandal and reproach unto the name of Jesus Christ.

    Please get your understanding of the Christian religion from the Bible itself.

    DON'T SHORT-CHANGE yourself.
    Speak and write Christianity with accuracy... else restrain. Attack Pat Robertson all you want... but don't misrepresent the teaching of the Bible, otherwise you will lose your credibility with those who are informed.

    2Tim 3:16-17
    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

    LAU SING FOO
    Penang
    -------------------

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  3. Concerning homosexual or sodomites, the Bible have this to say:

    Romans 1:
    22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
    23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
    24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
    25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
    26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
    27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    Lau Sing Foo
    Penang
    ------

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  4. As a human being, I am against the persecution of people on the basis of their religious beliefs, politics, and yes, their sexual orientation. The virtual criminalisation of homosexuality has to stop.

    However I am very leery of attempts to make homosexuality an acceptable norm in society. It is a very big leap from saying on one hand that we should not persecute gays to saying it is acceptable normal behaviour and making gay marriages on par with traditional marriages. I would strongly oppose that.

    Pat Robertson is no doubt an extreme characterisation of this position, and I'm no supporter of his rantings.
    But I would be correct in saying a great many honest ordinary people share my views on homosexuality.

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  5. But Malaysia has so many “prophets” right now. Two that readily come to mind:

    1) Prophets of Greed: most of those in the upper echelons of the BN.
    2) Prophets of Doom: those that wish to silence, smother, snuff out, subdue, spike, squash, stamp out any discussion of any topic that they deem will resurrect the May 13th ghost.

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  6. KTemoc,

    You got it all wrong. Just because there are no longer any prophets from God after Jesus (His arrival excised the need for any) does not mean God no longer speaks to us.

    You have forgotten the Holy Spirit.

    John 14:26
    "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."

    Because Jesus fulfilled the Messianic prophesies in the Old Testament, there was no longer any need for Pharisaic laws, animal sacrifices, prophets or even a physical Temple of God. As long as you believe in the Messiah, you will receive the Holy Spirit, and through that God speaks to each of His believers.

    And I am not sure whether your example of that demagogue Pat Robertson as a "prophet" is good or not. It is because I am not sure God is so low to endorse specific partisan and political platforms. After all, isn't ALL of humanity his creation? Wouldn't it be better if he had not created Democrats in the first place, so as to remove the need for Pat's politicking?

    Therefore, any believer can talk with God if he has faith. No need for prophets, because all believers effectively became "prophets" after the advent of Christ.

    The Marquis

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  7. The Marquis wrote:
    You have forgotten the Holy Spirit.

    John 14:26
    "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."
    ===============

    These words are said to the Apsotles... and the Spirit of Christ did teach the Apostles all things, and bring to their remembrance all that the Lord Jesus had taught them. The 27 books of the New Testament is the definitive and complete product of what the Lord Jesus promised in John 14:26.


    It is true that every child of God (the Father of Jesus Christ) is indwelt with the Holy Spirit...Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    And it is this very same Holy Spirit that will teach the believers what the Spirit Himself has inspired the Apostles and their immediate assistants have written in the New Testament, and the prophets have written in the Old Testament.

    The Holy does not give any more new revelation. The Bible is perfect and complete, and all sufficient... to teach men what they to believe concerning God, and what duties God requires of them.

    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

    Lau Sing Foo

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  8. kittykat46 said...
    As a human being, I am against the persecution of people on the basis of their religious beliefs, politics, and yes, their sexual orientation. The virtual criminalisation of homosexuality has to stop.

    --------------

    Christ Jesus, the Head of His Church has given laws to govern and order His church. No sodomite can be received into the church.

    9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
    11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    That's the standard of Christ for His church.

    ReplyDelete