Qian Xuesen: The man the US deported - who then helped China into space
IMAGE COPYRIGHTGETTY IMAGES
A Chinese scientist helped not one but two superpowers reach the moon, writes Kavita Puri, but his story is remembered in only one of them.
In Shanghai there is an entire museum containing 70,000 artefacts dedicated to one man, "the people's scientist" Qian Xuesen.
Qian is the father of China's missile and space programme. His research helped develop the rockets that fired China's first satellite into space, and missiles that became part of its nuclear arsenal, and he is revered as a national hero.
But in another superpower, where he studied and worked for more than a decade, his significant contributions are rarely remembered at all.
Qian was born in 1911, as China's last imperial dynasty was about to be replaced by a republic. His parents were both well-educated and his father, after working in Japan, established China's national education system. It was evident from an early age that Qian was gifted, and he eventually graduated top of his class at Shanghai Jiao Tong University, winning a rare scholarship to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in the US.
In 1935 a trim, well-dressed young man arrived in Boston. Qian may have experienced some xenophobia and racism, says Chris Jespersen, professor of history at the University of North Georgia. But there was "also a sentiment of hope and belief that China [was] changing in fundamentally significant ways", and he would certainly have been among people who respected his knowledge.
From MIT Qian moved to the California Institute of Technology (Caltech), to study under one of the most influential aeronautical engineers of the day, the Hungarian émigré, Theodore von Karman. There Qian shared an office with another prominent scientist, Frank Malina, who was a key member of a small group of innovators known as the Suicide Squad.
The group had earned this nickname because of their attempts to build a rocket on campus, and because some of their experiments with volatile chemicals went badly wrong, says Fraser Macdonald, author of Escape from Earth: A Secret History of the Space Rocket. Though he adds that no-one died.
One day Qian got drawn into a discussion of a complicated mathematical problem with Malina and other members of the group and before long he was an integral part of it, producing seminal research into rocket propulsion.
At the time, rocket science was the "stuff of cranks and fantasists," Macdonald says. "No-one is taking it seriously - no mathematically inclined engineer would risk their reputation by saying this is the future." But that quickly changed with the start of World War II.
The Suicide Squad caught the attention of the US military, which paid for research into jet-assisted take-off, where boosters were attached to the wings of aircraft to enable them to get airborne from short runways. Military funding also helped establish the Jet Propulsion Lab (JPL) in 1943, under the directorship of Theodore von Karman. Qian, along with Frank Malina, was at the heart of the project.
In Shanghai there is an entire museum containing 70,000 artefacts dedicated to one man, "the people's scientist" Qian Xuesen.
Qian is the father of China's missile and space programme. His research helped develop the rockets that fired China's first satellite into space, and missiles that became part of its nuclear arsenal, and he is revered as a national hero.
But in another superpower, where he studied and worked for more than a decade, his significant contributions are rarely remembered at all.
Qian was born in 1911, as China's last imperial dynasty was about to be replaced by a republic. His parents were both well-educated and his father, after working in Japan, established China's national education system. It was evident from an early age that Qian was gifted, and he eventually graduated top of his class at Shanghai Jiao Tong University, winning a rare scholarship to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in the US.
In 1935 a trim, well-dressed young man arrived in Boston. Qian may have experienced some xenophobia and racism, says Chris Jespersen, professor of history at the University of North Georgia. But there was "also a sentiment of hope and belief that China [was] changing in fundamentally significant ways", and he would certainly have been among people who respected his knowledge.
From MIT Qian moved to the California Institute of Technology (Caltech), to study under one of the most influential aeronautical engineers of the day, the Hungarian émigré, Theodore von Karman. There Qian shared an office with another prominent scientist, Frank Malina, who was a key member of a small group of innovators known as the Suicide Squad.
The group had earned this nickname because of their attempts to build a rocket on campus, and because some of their experiments with volatile chemicals went badly wrong, says Fraser Macdonald, author of Escape from Earth: A Secret History of the Space Rocket. Though he adds that no-one died.
One day Qian got drawn into a discussion of a complicated mathematical problem with Malina and other members of the group and before long he was an integral part of it, producing seminal research into rocket propulsion.
At the time, rocket science was the "stuff of cranks and fantasists," Macdonald says. "No-one is taking it seriously - no mathematically inclined engineer would risk their reputation by saying this is the future." But that quickly changed with the start of World War II.
The Suicide Squad caught the attention of the US military, which paid for research into jet-assisted take-off, where boosters were attached to the wings of aircraft to enable them to get airborne from short runways. Military funding also helped establish the Jet Propulsion Lab (JPL) in 1943, under the directorship of Theodore von Karman. Qian, along with Frank Malina, was at the heart of the project.
IMAGE COPYRIGHTALAMYimage caption
A Grumann TBF Avenger makes a jet-assisted take-off in the Pacific in World War Two
Qian was a Chinese citizen, but the Republic of China was an ally of the US, so there was "no massive suspicion about a Chinese scientist at the heart of American space endeavour", says Fraser Macdonald. Qian was given security clearance to work on classified weapons research, and even served on the US government's Science Advisory Board.
By the end of the war he was one of the world's foremost experts on jet propulsion, and was sent with Theodore von Karman on an extraordinary mission to Germany, holding the temporary rank of lieutenant colonel. Their goal was to interview Nazi engineers, including Wernher von Braun, Germany's leading rocket scientist; America wanted to find out exactly what the Germans knew.
But by the end of the decade Qian's glittering career in the US came to a sudden halt, and his life there began to unravel.
In China, Chairman Mao declared the creation of the communist People's Republic in 1949, and quickly the Chinese came to be seen in the US as "the evil ones", says Chris Jespersen. "So we go through these periods in the US where we are infatuated with China, then something happens and we revile China," he says.
Meanwhile, a new director at the JPL came to believe there was a spy ring at the lab, and shared his suspicions about some members of staff with the FBI. "I note that they are all either Chinese or Jewish," says Fraser Macdonald.
The Cold War was under way, and the anti-communist witch-hunts of the McCarthy era were just around the corner. It was in this atmosphere that the FBI accused Qian, Frank Malina and others of being communists, and a threat to national security.
By the end of the war he was one of the world's foremost experts on jet propulsion, and was sent with Theodore von Karman on an extraordinary mission to Germany, holding the temporary rank of lieutenant colonel. Their goal was to interview Nazi engineers, including Wernher von Braun, Germany's leading rocket scientist; America wanted to find out exactly what the Germans knew.
But by the end of the decade Qian's glittering career in the US came to a sudden halt, and his life there began to unravel.
In China, Chairman Mao declared the creation of the communist People's Republic in 1949, and quickly the Chinese came to be seen in the US as "the evil ones", says Chris Jespersen. "So we go through these periods in the US where we are infatuated with China, then something happens and we revile China," he says.
Meanwhile, a new director at the JPL came to believe there was a spy ring at the lab, and shared his suspicions about some members of staff with the FBI. "I note that they are all either Chinese or Jewish," says Fraser Macdonald.
The Cold War was under way, and the anti-communist witch-hunts of the McCarthy era were just around the corner. It was in this atmosphere that the FBI accused Qian, Frank Malina and others of being communists, and a threat to national security.
IMAGE COPYRIGHTALAMYimage caption
Frank Malina and a missile at the White Sands missile range, New Mexico, in 1946
The charges against Qian were based on a 1938 document of the US Communist Party that showed he had attended a social gathering that the FBI suspected was a meeting of the Pasadena Communist Party. Although Qian denied being a party member, new research suggests he joined at the same time as Frank Malina in 1938.
But this doesn't necessarily make him a Marxist. To be a communist at this time was a statement of anti-racism, says Fraser Macdonald. The group wanted to highlight the threat of fascism, he says, as well as the horror of racism in the US. They were campaigning, for example, against the segregation of the local Pasadena swimming pool, and used their communist meetings to discuss it.
Zuoyue Wang, professor of history at California State University, says there is no evidence that Qian ever spied for China or was an intelligence agent when he was in the US.
He was, however, stripped of his security clearance and put under house arrest. Caltech colleagues, including Theodore von Karman, wrote to the government pleading Qian's innocence, but in vain.
In 1955, when Qian had spent five years under house arrest, President Eisenhower took the decision to deport him to China. The scientist left by boat with his wife and two US-born children, telling waiting reporters he would never step foot in America again. He kept his promise.
But this doesn't necessarily make him a Marxist. To be a communist at this time was a statement of anti-racism, says Fraser Macdonald. The group wanted to highlight the threat of fascism, he says, as well as the horror of racism in the US. They were campaigning, for example, against the segregation of the local Pasadena swimming pool, and used their communist meetings to discuss it.
Zuoyue Wang, professor of history at California State University, says there is no evidence that Qian ever spied for China or was an intelligence agent when he was in the US.
He was, however, stripped of his security clearance and put under house arrest. Caltech colleagues, including Theodore von Karman, wrote to the government pleading Qian's innocence, but in vain.
In 1955, when Qian had spent five years under house arrest, President Eisenhower took the decision to deport him to China. The scientist left by boat with his wife and two US-born children, telling waiting reporters he would never step foot in America again. He kept his promise.
IMAGE COPYRIGHTGETTY IMAGESimage caption
Qian Xuesen and his lawyer, Grant Cooper, at a deportation hearing in November 1950
"He was one of the most prominent scientists in America. He had contributed so much and could have contributed much more. So it's not just humiliation but also a sense of betrayal," says the journalist and writer, Tianyu Fang.
Qian arrived as a hero in China but was not immediately admitted into the Chinese Communist Party. His record was not impeccable. His wife was the aristocratic daughter of a Nationalist leader, and until Qian's fall from grace he'd been living happily in America - he'd even taken the first steps towards applying for citizenship.
When he finally became a party member in 1958, he embraced it and always tried to remain on the right side of the regime. He survived purges and the Cultural Revolution, and thus was able to pursue an extraordinary career.
When he had arrived in China there was little understanding of rocket science, but 15 years later he oversaw the launch of the first Chinese satellite into space. Over the decades, he trained a new generation of scientists, and his work laid the foundations for China to send its own people to the moon.
Ironically, the missile programme that Qian helped develop in China resulted in weapons which were then fired back on America. Qian's silkworm missiles were fired at Americans in the 1991 Gulf War, Fraser Macdonald says, and in 2016 against the USS Mason by Huti rebels in Yemen.
"So there's this odd circularity. The US expelled this expertise, and it has come back to bite them." In taking a tough line against domestic communism, he suggests, the country deported "the means by which one of their main communist rivals could develop their own missiles and space programme - an extraordinary geopolitical blunder."
A former US Secretary of the Navy, Dan Kimball - later head of the rocket propulsion company, Aerojet - once said it was "the stupidest thing this country ever did".
Qian arrived as a hero in China but was not immediately admitted into the Chinese Communist Party. His record was not impeccable. His wife was the aristocratic daughter of a Nationalist leader, and until Qian's fall from grace he'd been living happily in America - he'd even taken the first steps towards applying for citizenship.
When he finally became a party member in 1958, he embraced it and always tried to remain on the right side of the regime. He survived purges and the Cultural Revolution, and thus was able to pursue an extraordinary career.
When he had arrived in China there was little understanding of rocket science, but 15 years later he oversaw the launch of the first Chinese satellite into space. Over the decades, he trained a new generation of scientists, and his work laid the foundations for China to send its own people to the moon.
Ironically, the missile programme that Qian helped develop in China resulted in weapons which were then fired back on America. Qian's silkworm missiles were fired at Americans in the 1991 Gulf War, Fraser Macdonald says, and in 2016 against the USS Mason by Huti rebels in Yemen.
"So there's this odd circularity. The US expelled this expertise, and it has come back to bite them." In taking a tough line against domestic communism, he suggests, the country deported "the means by which one of their main communist rivals could develop their own missiles and space programme - an extraordinary geopolitical blunder."
A former US Secretary of the Navy, Dan Kimball - later head of the rocket propulsion company, Aerojet - once said it was "the stupidest thing this country ever did".
IMAGE COPYRIGHTALAMYimage caption
A missile at the Qian Xuesen museum in Shanghai
Today, there is once again heightened tension between China and the US. This time it's not over ideology but trade, concerns over tech security, and China's failure - as President Donald Trump regards it - to do more to contain Covid-19.
While most Americans have no idea about Qian and his role in America's space programme, Tianyu Fang says many Chinese Americans and Chinese students in the US, do know about him, and why he had to leave, and they see the parallels with the present day. "US China relations have got so much worse they know they could be under the same suspicions as Qian's generation," he says.
In Fraser Macdonald's view, Qian's story is a warning about what happens when you expel knowledge. "The whole story of American science is that it is propelled by people coming from outside… but in these conservative times that's a story that becomes harder to celebrate."
The JPL's contribution to the US space programme has, Macdonald believes, been much neglected compared to that of Wernher von Braun and other German scientists, who were taken in secret to the US soon after the visit paid to them by von Karman and Qian.
Braun had been a Nazi, and yet his achievements are recognised in a way that those of Qian and others from the JPL are not, Macdonald says. "The idea that America's first viable space programme was started by homegrown socialists - whether Jewish or Chinese - is not really a story that the US is able to hear about itself," he says.
Qian's life spanned almost a century. In that time China grew from an economic minnow to a superpower on Earth and in space. Qian was part of that transformation. But his story could have been a great American one too - where talent, wherever it is found, could thrive.
Last year, when China made history and landed on the far side of the moon, it did so in the Von Karman crater, named after the aeronautical engineer who was a mentor to Qian. A nod, perhaps, to the fact that American anti-communism helped propel China into space.
While most Americans have no idea about Qian and his role in America's space programme, Tianyu Fang says many Chinese Americans and Chinese students in the US, do know about him, and why he had to leave, and they see the parallels with the present day. "US China relations have got so much worse they know they could be under the same suspicions as Qian's generation," he says.
In Fraser Macdonald's view, Qian's story is a warning about what happens when you expel knowledge. "The whole story of American science is that it is propelled by people coming from outside… but in these conservative times that's a story that becomes harder to celebrate."
The JPL's contribution to the US space programme has, Macdonald believes, been much neglected compared to that of Wernher von Braun and other German scientists, who were taken in secret to the US soon after the visit paid to them by von Karman and Qian.
Braun had been a Nazi, and yet his achievements are recognised in a way that those of Qian and others from the JPL are not, Macdonald says. "The idea that America's first viable space programme was started by homegrown socialists - whether Jewish or Chinese - is not really a story that the US is able to hear about itself," he says.
Qian's life spanned almost a century. In that time China grew from an economic minnow to a superpower on Earth and in space. Qian was part of that transformation. But his story could have been a great American one too - where talent, wherever it is found, could thrive.
Last year, when China made history and landed on the far side of the moon, it did so in the Von Karman crater, named after the aeronautical engineer who was a mentor to Qian. A nod, perhaps, to the fact that American anti-communism helped propel China into space.
Part of the story is not accurate. When the People republic of China was formed, the country was so backward and weak, Qian Xuesen (and many other young brilliant Chinese) had decided to return to China out of his (their) own patriotic volition, determined to help "to make China great again" (note Donald Trump's "to make America great again" is no equivalent, wakakakaka ......) In the event FBI quickly sprang into action to prevent him from returning. putting him under house arrest for 5 years. In the end it took Zhou Enlai to negotiate with the US and got Qian released in exchange for repatriation of some US pilots who were captured during the Korean War. Qian was not deported and the early part of his story upon arriving back to China is also most likely inaccurate, wakakakaka.........
ReplyDeletei recall i call qian the first generation ccp thief, did this article tell differently?
ReplyDeleteIs that from yr own personal experience as a first generation nonchinese thief, working as a barking doggie for yr katak & dangdut pals?
DeleteQian Xuesen is a brilliant scientists par excellence.
ReplyDeleteBut his major contribution to the advancement in China scientific developments lies in a key modern scientific study that fews have achieved any significant insights even at this days, system engineering.
Qian's contribution in 两弹一星 is in establishing a key systemic approach to coordinate the widely dispersed Chinese expertises, homegrown but disorganised due to the state of sopo-econ environment then in China.
China, then, had limited access to advanced instrumentation & machinery in solving highly complicated scientific calculations, equipment measutements & calibrations, & latest scientific data that were been blockaded by US & Soviet.
But she has the right people!
With the helps of Qian's systemic approaches in solving scientific problems, many seemingly impossible hurdles were tackled & overcome with the ingenuity of the Chinese scientists working on them.
eg. The theory of entropy, a key component in the understanding of the modern quantum mechanics has been known in ancient China as 熵 long before its formulation by German scientist - T.Clausius in 1865.
两弹一星 & many current advancement in Chinese modern scientific fields r the combined blood&sweat efforts of many hardworking Chinese researchers building them up, either starting from common basic scientific knowledge (standing on the shoulders of the past researchers, within & without China) to pure tireless researches building up from ground zero!
This is to dispute the continuous lies putting forward by those China bashers about stealing advanced knowledge from the 'developed' West.
天宫 space station & 北斗 satellite navigational system prove that China can develop her own advanced scientific & technical know-hows in the face of full uncooperative & scorned attitudes of the 'developed' Western nations.
BTW, Qian & his family (wife + 2 kids) were allowed to return to China in final exchange of 4 captured US spy plane pilots by China after many rounds of secret negotiations.
working very hard to steal n copy, like our pencuri perombak penyamun n peculik.
DeleteSteal & copy?
DeleteSo typically 台毒 katak fart of jealousy!
5,000 yo Bullyland citizen, educated, trained and worked in 500 yo Bullyland, turn spy, steal secrets and gets deported. That's normal. Any examples of the reverse?
ReplyDelete"turn spy, steal secrets and gets deported. That's normal."
DeleteNormal as in yr meme-ed demoNcratic f*cked mind that believing in any shits regurgitated by yr beloved western propaganda machines!
hunter biden?
DeleteEven 5,000 yo Bullyland leader sends his daughter to study in 500 yo Bullyland university. It's normal.
ReplyDeleteQUOTE
Xi Jinping's daughter rumored to have returned to US to resume studies
Chinese leader may have agreed to let Xi Mingzhe leave China to keep her out of danger
170332
By Duncan Deaeth, Taiwan News, Staff Writer
2019/10/15
TAIPEI (Taiwan News) — Amid the U.S.-China trade conflict and the ongoing social unrest in Hong Kong, reports this week suggest that the daughter of China’s supreme leader Xi Jinping may have returned to the United States to engage in graduate-level studies at Harvard University.
Xi Mingzhe (習明澤) previously completed her undergraduate studies at Harvard in 2014. Her re-enrollment in 2019 may indicate that Xi Jinping considers the United States to be a safer place for his child than Beijing, in the midst of political intrigue and possible danger.
Xi Mingzhe was born in 1992 and is the only child of Xi Jinping and Chinese singer Peng Liyuan (彭麗媛). Now News reports that Mingzhe has been back in the U.S. attending classes for some time and may have begun graduate studies in 2018.
The report states that Xi Mingzhi was unsatisfied with her life in China after living for several years as a student in the United States. Out of love for his daughter, Xi Jinping was reportedly persuaded to let her return to school in Massachusetts, where she had enjoyed her undergraduate years.
UNQUOTE
Rumours!
DeleteWakakakakakaka…
Didn't I say about how easily mfers, like u, would swallow any shits regurgitated from any western propaganda machines?
Very typical indeed for these morons.
realise their china dream in america?
DeleteDid the rumored players stay put in America to realise their China dream?
DeleteKeep farting, that well needs refilling. Otherwise all the inhabitants within would die of airs deprivation!
There were and are Chinese American citizens working in frontline positions in America's advanced technology industries. Silicon Valley has many Asian faces.
ReplyDeleteQian's problems were more related to his political ideology, which raised serious doubts about his reliability and Loyalty to work with the most advanced technologies.
Similar doubts were acted upon with White Americans, so its not really a n issue with skin colour.
"Qian's problems were more related to his political ideology, which raised serious doubts about his reliability and Loyalty to work with the most advanced technologies."
DeleteDid u learn that from yr beloved demoNcratized McCarthyism?
In terms of the 1950's, Mccarthy's committee was very, very, very mild and pleasant compared to The CCP State Security Ministry.
DeleteAny Chinese considered a traitor by the CCP Ministry Of State Security is in danger of his life.
McCarthyism has real & proven records for the world to see.
DeleteAnything similar coming out from CCP Ministry of State Security (wakakakaka… is there REALLY such a ministry?)?
Or just purely yr meme-ed CCP bashing indoctrination!
dun tok kok, see how anyone that have anything related to kmt however insignificant was treated during cr.
DeleteDon't u tok kok too!
DeleteHow anyone remotely related to CCP as in Zhang Xueliang (張學良) been treated in that f*cked island.
China comes first or kmt power grip comes first?
Did u pass that knowledge to yr ketuanan freaks such that within their small minds they r been awakened to melayu first, m'sian tunggu lulu bila sampai kenyang?
It is clearly a fact that Qian was an integral and key personnel who contributed to many of US innovation those days. He gave up money, fames and comfort to return to his motherland purely out of love and patriotic spirit with intention to help to build up China having seen how China had suffered and being thrashed and walked upon by the western countries and Japan which pained him and many Chinese the whole world over. It was his knowledge which was a result of his own learning and research which he brought back to China. Therefore to accused him as a thief who stole is so unfair, cruel and irresponsible defamation, what a shame!
ReplyDelete3 qian r either back from usa or europe, would they possess the same knowledge if they went to philippine or indonesia? show us whats the local scientist contribution except qigong n maoism?
ReplyDeletemany r stealing especially american, however only ccp chinese thick face enough to claim stolen goods is their own creation, no shame one la this ccp chinese.
He may or may not possess the same knowledge that I can't answer you but definitely not like you said definitely not. Chinese 5G technology is way advance than US but some ignorant brainwashed Joe don't know anything about it mean that's false news. Since advance technology was stolen from the US, US technology must be way ahead of Huawei and when US said Huawei is security risk with backdoor, US must have found the proof after 2 long years of hollow accusation, must have been irrefutable proof for you to behave as a diehard fan of US.
DeleteI think you watched too many 1970s through 1990s Hollywood movies, all German, Japanese, Italians, Russians and communism (read Chinese) are the bad and ugly, Americans are the pure, holy and the only intelligent people on earth!!! wakakakaka ..........
犬养mfer, just imagine that yr 蔡妹妹 passes u a copy of S400 missile blue print & asking u to use it to improve on the homegrown Tien Kung.
Delete1st, with yr kind of thick & petrified grey matter, u wouldn't be able to distinguish which end should bear the explosive module.
2nd, with the currently available toolings & instrumentations that Formosa is having, u WOULDN'T be able to fabricate the required electronic radar guiding module.
So, even if u have the master S400 blue print, most likely paid through the nose via stealing espionage, the Tien Kung missile is still shit!
犬养mfer, see the logic in yr f*cked lies?
天宫 space station is 100% China made as NASA & ESA totally banned China participation. Soviet Union guards their Soyuz technology as his priceless heirloom such that no Chinese cosmonaut has ever ride on it.
北斗 satellite navigation system is 100% China made - with far far better pixel resolution & 2-way communication built in.
If that technology was stolen from yr uncle Sam, do explain WHY GPS, military or public grades, can't do better than 北斗 in areas that I have just describes?
Moreover, yr uncle Sam has been going ALL-OUT to entice Chinese scientist to disclose the 北斗 codes. So far only a turncoated 清华 博士生 has managed on the public codes!
U r just a recalcitrant CCP/China/Chinese hater for yr own inadequacy. Such that any Chinese advancement is 山寨！
犬养mfer， tell u a FACT that TSMC keeps to its chest. Its rapid advancement in 5nm chip fabrication over Samsung, has a very large technical contributions done by supporting engineers send from Huawei & ZTE!
Huawei/ZTE can't fabricate the chip themselves SIMPLY due to the required equipments blockades forced on by US!
Mfer, keeps cloaking yr katak lies under that fart filled well. U r 坐井说天阔. Lying to keep yrself syiok!
yes usa tech is definitely far advance than china, thats y when usa stop the chips supply, huawei 5g roll out have to delay or stop. china still dun know how to make chips n many semiconductor required in telecom industry, what huawei did is merely equipment n infrastructure for 5g, not the required material n parts, they dont own the 5g technology. so nothing to curi from huawei.
Deletethe 5g war is actually not 5g itself, its what 5g can do, so even though china 5g roll out is faster n wider, still no sigh china will win the 5g war, that said, we do know that ccp is the leader in face recognition n personal data collection that require gigantic database n speed, ccp is good at collecting n compiling any information that people believe is personal, simply bec ccp treat chinese like animal in the zoo where privacy doesnt matter, all this data n information facilities how ccp manage the chinese n make them more zombie like, its a technology usa try to do but fail miserably bec there is very less zombie in us, mostly r in movies.
and whether telecom equipment pose a security risk, i tend to believe the usa assertion, they r the world no1 bully n have spy all over the world, didnt they say only a thief know how other thief think?
every year i read at least 12 books abt china, watch 50 china produce movie n at least 30 china made series. i read toudiao tencent zhihu more than any western media, i know the ccp chinese up down left right front back, one simple fact, most american r naive n straight while most ccp chinese r sneaky n crook. so the conclusion is not that diff even if i watch hollywood.
"yes usa tech is definitely far advance than china"
Delete"and whether telecom equipment pose a security risk, i tend to believe the usa assertion"
"one simple fact, most american r naive n straight while most ccp chinese r sneaky n crook"
Wakakaka .......... you know what? You really argue with CIRCULAR LOGIC (to borrowed from TC, hope no prior permission nor royalty payment required, hehehe ....) Okay lah US tech is more advance but for the time being, can you please apologize for your wrongful, baseless, without proof whatsoever accusation, 2 long years, 730 days have already gone man ....... still cannot discover the fault meh, hah only genius on earth!
Oh by the way, Qian was jailed and subsequently under house arrest for 5 years, during this period also lost his job as a lecturer in the University, totally cut-off from the government innovation project which originally he had contribution to its being. When he return to China, he only brought back the knowledge that he gained with him, which are theories and sciences principles etc and not the US blueprint of the rocket nor the missile, I really hope you can understand what I am trying to say ........... wakakakaka
Deletesucker, u know what huawei engineer do best? whenever a supplier give them a product as sample testing, they will do a thorough analysis of the product n do a listing of material, further ask you what why how all this material is needed to make that product work.
Deleteyou have 2 option, ask huawei to fuck off, or tell them all yr trade / product secret how your product is made. trump did the former while biden n his son will do the latter.
huawei is the no1 pencuri in china. thats their contribution.
This thread too complicated for me, Circular Logic x 1,000, pusing pusing, carry on please....but for sure no Huawei for me, Apple ok.
DeleteWakakakakaka…
DeleteIndeed a f*cked circular logic!
When u r the ONLY supplier/designer of yr OWN invention, do tell who r u going to ask for helps/infos?
An imaginary super duper supplier coming out from yr uncle Sam's apron! Most likely curi whatsoever secrets it has accumulated from Huawei/ZTE in the first place!
If u really want to know, TSMC is the biggest pencuri in semiconductor fabrication!
TSMC doesn't do any chip design. It ONLY acts as a fabrication foundry. When a new chip design is given by a designer, it asks questions disguised as queries to fit its fabrications processes. Along the way, it curi the designer's ideas to improve on its fabrication.
That's how Huawei/ZTE seconded engineers to TSMC been helped to advance TSMC's 5nm chipset fabrication.
Qualcomm is too 'smart' by half to second any technical staffs to either Samsung or TSMC who fabricate its snapdragon chipset. Neither is Apple for its A14 chipset. Bcoz of this lack of designer/foundry cooperation, that's the major reason of WHY until now Apple, Qualcomm & Samsung lack behind in 5G chipset which is using 5nm fabrication know-how.
犬养mfer, do keeps farting about yr lies. Especially those on technologies, social sciences, things China etc etc.
Do quote all those 台毒 katak farts & all those voluminous manga u have read.
Ooop… haven't I told u that u r not even a shadow of those 台毒 morons I have challenged. Maybe, u should go back to Formosa & learning more from them about how to fart PROPERLY!
i suggest u debunk my statement usa tech is far far far far advance than china instead of all this pointless syok sendiri remarks. u can always start with a simple n no need logic question, any tech if china exert a ban would impact usa, or the other way round?
Deletemost of the patent law n intellectual law is to protect the rich n advance countries, stealing the tech is the only way to compete n progress, my issue is when the objective is to become another rich n advance bully. thats my circular logic if u really want a label.
would china allow a japs korean msian american involve in their military research or anything hi tech, if no whats the reason?
usa do that, thats y u see white black yellow brown all are in usa doing learning living working in almost everything, can usa ban yellow? they can right?
whether qian steal or not steal is a question of conscience, i am perfectly fine if u believe he is not.
Haha ha ha....... no need to curse man, you are getting a bit jumble up in your reasoning, I am confused, okay lah you win wakakaka ...........
Delete"whenever a supplier give them a product as sample testing, they will do a thorough analysis of the product n do a listing of material, further ask you what why how all this material is needed to make that product work."
DeleteIf I asked a supplier to supply, I will specified the quality, the materials, the measurements and what not. I don't see what you described happening!?
Huawei is exercising their copy rights now claiming royalties from Qualcomm, Intel, Apple etc etc Why should they ban them, Huawei is doing business making money, Chinese philosophy, win-win lah.
Deletei am not here to win, besides, a win against u isnt worth a lot. being a chinese, i am not sure y its so difficult to admit usa is far advance.
Deletei am jumble bec i anti ccp not china, among ccp, i strongly condemn emperor xi n the blinded zombie. its fine if u dont know the diff.
n i only respond a curse with curse, if u never do that, then pretty sure my response is not direct to u, its not my characteristic wakaka.
Wakakakakaka…
DeleteSo simple minded!
"any tech if china exert a ban would impact usa"
#1 rare earth materials. Wakakakaka… did u know that the concentrated ore from Lynas kuantan has to divert to China for further purification & processing in order to turn into final useful elements?
#2 if China would play the same game as any companies using more than 5% of China 5G technological patents shouldn't deal with any US &/or other companies w/o permission from China impex trade controls department would face immediate trade sanctions from China.
What would the impact? Do tell!
There would not be any flyable F35, or any workable precision motors for the necessary electrification.
No 4G networks throughout the world too & just the old turtle-speed IMT-2000 technical standards of UMTS and GSM hybrids & the CDMA2000 system.
"stealing the tech is the only way to compete n progress"
No! If alternative means can be found to achieve the same final technological requirements.
This is exactly what happened to the development of hydrogen bomb. There r ONLY 3 countries in the world having hydrogen bomb. All of them r using very different hydrogen fusion mechanism under the created thermonuclear temperature.
All these processes r secret & individualistic. But the end result of the hydrogen bomb is the SAME!
If ONLY NASA/ESA would allow China participation in their space station programming via the same cooperation they gave to Soviet. If Galileo would allow China participation, as in inter EU cooperation.
These ain't NO military applications but a common humanity endurance!
Yet the double standards caused by one-upmanship via race/politic/ideological biasness put empty words into Humanity!
There is NO any question of conscience within Qian's monumental endeavors for China & Chinese! He is TOTALLY capable of achieving what he had set out to do using his intelligence & ingenuity.
Nobody is asking u for yr opinion on that subject! & U can keep adhering to yr inferiority fart.
All of us, out there, who know a patriotic savant wouldn't blink an eye lip for yr inadequacy.
1. rare earth is a matter how countries treat it people, not a matter who possess more. china n msia treat it people like zombie, thats y.
Delete2. change the supplier to samsung nokia or whoever, nobody care the pencuri no 1 patent.
3. only way is refer to ccp china. u may disagree, but fact tell otherwise, or else y not recruit a 3 qian from hubei hunan sichuan but usa n france?
犬养mfer, DON'T try to be fluid with yr 南魔萬 England usage. U r not up to the basic level yet!
Delete1) "rare earth is a matter how countries treat it people, not a matter who possess more"
Just admit u REALLY know fart about rare earth lah. What has rare earth gotten to do with how countries treat its people? Bountiful possession?
Rare earth isn't rare but abundantly exist all-over the earth crust.
The process of extracting the ore creates radioactive thorium concention which Lynas has denied by working hand in glove with the ketuanan govt & IAEA!
China has learnt the hard lessons of environmental pollution by uncontrolled rare earth minings. She has fine tuned the industry while creating a unique refining process that turn rare earth ore into the usable elements with minimum environmental impact.
The rest of the world has no such skills in refining the various rare earth elements w/o ruining their surrounding environment!
Where is the problem of treating people comes into play here? From yr voluminous comic readings? From katak fart induced hallucinations?
2) "change the supplier to samsung nokia or whoever"
Wow!! What a f*cked insight! So easy!
Whoever u engaged STILL need to use patented technologies from Huawei/ZTE. Both of them control more 36% of the 5G technical know-hows that no others CAN find alternatives!
Even within 4G technologies, Samsung, Nokia or Ericsson DON'T own all the patented rights. Again, Huawei/ZTE have a substantial copyrights of more than 5%.
Yaloh, change suppliers to supply namesake 4/5G technologies liken to how AT&T/Verizon dupe their 3G services as advanced 4G in US.
Mmm… sound so much like those ketuanan freaks gimmickry of getting 1st class pay with 3rd world services.
R u sure u don't have a hand or leg there?
3) conscience! U only know the katak-ised meaning, right?
犬养mfer, Qians (学森、三强 etc), were sent oversea to further their scientific knowledge on govt scholarship! The then govt did the right choice to send them to oversea simply bcoz China then was lacking far behind in scientific advancements due to the Ming/Qing legacies & warring stages after the fall of Qing.
It would be irresponsible to recruit 3 Qians from Hubei, Hunan & Sichuan & not sending them to learn from the best institutions of the world!
So, the consciences was on the part of the govt then to do the right thing. & the Qians' conscience was to repay the country!
Yet yr katak-ised version is they steal & copy advance knowledge from the West!
Mfer, reread my take about the story on Formosa tien kung missile lah. Only moron, like u, believes in katak, any katak for that matter, can steal & copy advanced technical infos that the hosts ain't in grip completely themselves!
U DO know fart about how knowledge is gain & accumulated!
Mmm… just recall the katak norm of taking easy way out in doing anything. Especially, cloaking loudly to prove its miserable existence.
u shd do more reality chk n less delusional kok toking ok kah?
Delete1 n 2) ccp dickhead like jin canrong n zhang weiwei already tok abt tis for more than 5 years to zombie n all ccp can counter when trump turn aggressive is continue kok toking like what u do now.
3) since u willing to state qing china is far behind so the tech was/is from the west right? y u keep argue something that almost all chinese acknowledged? its not irresponsible to hv 3 local qian，not even improbable, its absolutely impossible or else the chinese r still having pigtail n kowtow to emperor manchu, though now not that diff with that ccp emperor xi.
?!!!
DeleteWhat's that 1&2 u r tokking kok about?
Confused! Hiding yr know-rothing, right?
No more rare earth & change suppliers!
Or just exercise yr usual tok3tok4tokskytokearth to get out of the cesspool u have dug!
Jin canrong & Zhang weiwei have not turned hawks about military unification with Taiwan 5 yrs ago. They only advocating 武统 when yr 蔡妹妹 started kissing US ass rigorously to help her futile independent dream - proving peaceful negotiation with 台毒 morons r waste of time!
Besides, the older Chinese leaders were too sentimental about Taiwanese been Chinese, to exercise the 武统 option.
Under president Xi, such consideration no longer apply. No more procrastinating the onr remaining legacy problem to the new China & Chinese!
Better get yr NED informers to provoke the Deep State that still hiding within the US administration to influence biden new govt to take a harder line approaches to China.
Otherwise, u wouldn't have yr usual yearly Formosa pilgrimage soon if u keep to yr f*cked vow of not touching anything CCP China!
3) circular f*cked argument of the desperado katak!
The CORE question of yr rants about the 3 Qians is they steal & copy US & western advanced technical know-hows to benefit CCP China.
Even if u want to stick to the western superior tech notions, anyone of the Qians were the towering pioneers in the field of their studies in the West. They created the knowledge that the so-called advanced West STILL followed!
Qian 学森 singlehandedly established the field of system engineering in his monumental researched in the US. Till now, his Engineering cybernetics or technical cybernetics, is still the foundation reference in SE in all US universities.
So, who steal whose idea?
Qian 三强 earned his fame in nuclear physic under Mary Currie in France by discovering the Uranium nuclear triple fission mechanism that earned him the Henri de Parville Physics Prize! He eventually formulated the unique thermonuclear fusion process used in the Chinese hydrogen bomb, which France doesn't processed!
So, who steal whose idea?
These r the monumental achievements that ALL chinese acknowledged.
Of course lah, that's what a nonchinese & CCP hater wants to denied.
The Chinese discarded the pigtail & abolished the Manchu dynasty long ago bcoz of their awakening from prolong sopo instabilities & humilities, mostly contributed by mfers, like u, in genuflecting to the whims and fancies of yr Western masters. 崇洋眉外 just to showcase u r of higher 'civilised' standard than those surrounding Chinese peasants.
BTW, have u learnt anything NEW yet from that f*cked Formosa? So far, u haven't produce anything new &/or sensible that I HAVE NOT heard from those 台毒 morons that I have challenged.
Or in that fart filled well, only stagnant fetid farts r been continuously regurgitated amongst the katak!
see, u pun tahu juga, all 3 qian achievement was done in usa n europe while all the 3 local qian can only practice qikong n recite mao shit day n night.
DeleteWakakakakakaka…
DeleteWhat's wrong to propagate Chinese knowledge in US & Europe?
Just proved that w/o the Qians, nothing or maybe another generation then the US or Europe can have someone like the Qians to uplift their 'superior' technological know-how to the next level.
Meanwhile u just keep reciting yr demoNcratic dogma, day & night, inside that fart filled well!
坐井说天阔 Pure syiok sendiri mah.
Wakakakakaka…
ReplyDeleteWhat a smokescreen fart from a know-nothing!
"china still dun know how to make chips n many semiconductor required in telecom industry, what huawei did is merely equipment n infrastructure for 5g, not the required material n parts, they dont own the 5g technology. so nothing to curi from huawei"
Huawei designs the superior Kirin2000 chip from his own lab. The only thing that Huawei didn't do is in chip fabrication which is done by the only few dedicated semiconductor foundries of the world.
China does a small amount of chip fabrication & assembly for its top end military & scientific requirements to meet national security demands.
So it's pure BS to say that China has no technical know-hows, material & dedicated instrumentation to fabricate high-end chipsets. Voluminous commercial production is a different kind of applications where multiple parties co-operations r imeprative due to cost, time & efficiency consideration.
犬养mfer, do u ACTUALLY know anything about 5G? Or just katak shits regurgitated from 台毒水炮？
5G isn't just a label as u claimed. It's extremely fast & huge data transmission & processing protocol that helps to expedite the AI, autonomous driving, remote medical operation & many more.
In terms of implementation & roll out of 5G, China has definite edges over US in applications due to the currently available 5G network. US has accumulated theories, built over the yrs on papers & labs. But nothing commercially available in successful operations.
US too has face recognition & personal data collection via CIA surveillance trojan malwares hide within all Apple/ Google/Facebook/Twitter apps. But CIA has zilch superfast network/equipments to meet that required gigantic database & speed processing!
It's so easy to hide behind personal privacy requirements. Just liken to shouting mask wearing & localised lockdowns invade personal freedom!
Mfer, if u want to talk about zombies, then there u have those demoNcratized dickheads screaming about 'individual rights' over the greater common national good! That 'sacrosanct' individual freedom has evolved into that same involuntary urge of the zombies in response to external actions that they COULDN'T fathom!
Zoo, indeed. Must be the same cozy, repetitive individualised surrounding of the isolated enclosures. Any changes would induce massive psychological stress & eventually lead to suicidal behaviours. See those US morons in action yet?
"didnt they say only a thief know how other thief think?"
Wow!!!
Prejudicial prerequisite that if the suspect makes FULL technical disclosure in the on set of any falsely laid assertions!
But how do u know. U r just a f*cked katak under a fart filled well! Biased too.
U have wasted ALL the time in reading/watching the literature, medias, books & documentaries about things China.
Maybe bcoz of that hp6 Mandarin u have acquired. + meme-ed Formosan katak biasness + selective content choosing (manga?) + lied in claiming to read such humongous volume of material!
Mfer, u ain't NO 5G processing chip. U r just a katak, doing the proverbial 坐井说天阔 to impress.
Too bad! The more u write & show-off, the more yr inadequacy shows.
huawei use china own produce superior chip la, self made n produce, not only design, paham the diff?
Deletegoogle owner is not cia, huawei own by ccp disguise in worker union, paham the diff?
since u use huawei phone, u sure know huawei 5g well wakaka, now tell us what 5g has changed china beside making tesla the best selling electric car?
i am all ears.
Well, if no bcoz of yr uncle Sam's strong arm twisting in blocking critical chip fabrication equipment, China would has have all the homegrown chipset she needs!
DeleteThat's end to end (流水线）manufacturing, similar to many other products made in China!
But, what do u faham? Just one sided fart! If Formosa has been reunited with China, go get yr uncle Sam to tell Qualcomm & Apple besides produce, design their own choosers & must self made too.
Know the differences? Moron!
Who owns what ISN'T the criteria. Who controls - IS!
Google owns by Alphabet in public. But it has to kowtow to CIA demands. Ditto Apple. Similarly Samsung, though superficially SKorean but US controls. Thus subject to CIA demands.
So simple & yet still keep asking that kiddie question of "faham the diff"!
My Huawei 5G phone helps to speed up my remote control/tweaking of equipments. Huge files transfer happens in seconds instead of ten of minutes.
Time saves is money saves. Efficiency improves. Productivity increases.
In AI, 5G speeds up the imperative nanoseconds computations as in neuron network exchange. In autonomous driving, 5G determines split second decision making involving fast & large data processing.
W/O working 5G speed & big data processing, US AI, autonomous driving would be lab based. While in China remote surgery would be SOON conducted in distant provincial hospitals via 5G networks!
But what do u know except Tesla! BTW, in China, XPeng & Nio r miles better than Tesla, which has no 5G communication ability as in autonomous driving.
Enough?
wrt books movie n series, its a fruitful journey, the first thing we learn is how ccp chinese define success n achievement, basically the criteria is came back from usofa, start a biz, making millions, n patrotic to ccp (not china yo), n finally the girl fall in love not bec the man is billionaire wakaka.
Deletealmost 100% ccp land 2nd ww series is glorifying ccp except one, the chinese netizen call all of them daity series (神剧) with little historical value, but of course no one dare to go into detail. the only one exception i talking abt is my chief and my regiment (我的团长我的团), the story abt kmt army fight the japs in myanmar n yunnan, however the screenwriter still cant resist to take a jibe at the kmt general, whose objective is to get american n the west to involve instead of fighting a peoples war against unifications by japs wakaka, however thats the fact of history which i believe is not bias n also the main reason why chiang did badly in the civil war later.
so my another conclusion is, ccp chinese r not all zombie but that was long time ago before emperor xi reign.
not enough, all r theory n on paper. show me the real n concrete achievement under 5g. for eg, i know 5g allow us to download a full 4 hour japs porn in 5 second, the theoretical achievement is u can now syok sendiri many times since u now can hv 12 porn within one minute, but in reality u can only come once a day due to yr limited sexual drive so no diff if u have a 1g or 5g.
Deleteget it?
Yaloh, those books, movie & series, parading the fruitful journeys BASED on katak-ised talk shows perpetuate by 台毒 水炮！
DeleteSo, u have anything new?
Otherwise, a simple answer - the current state of CCP China, in almost ALL endeavours in 伟大复兴重起中国梦， whitewashes all yr farts. PERIOD!
Of course not enough lah - some more theory & paper!
Delete犬养mfer, don't just continue yr 坐井说天阔 fart.
Theory & paper, indeed, in almost the rest of the world outside China proper! In Asia the next most wired internet country, SKorea, has limited 5G networks slotted within selected business pockets.
But have u been frog-leappingg out physically from that fart filled well to China, ONLY then u would have yr eye opened, instead of gluing to watch porn.
Shanghai, Sengzhen have almost full 5G coverage. With Beijing coming up. By the end of 2020, many 2nd & 3rd tier cities would have 5G coverage!
Meanwhile in yr uncle Sam's vast land, once u move out of the inner city range, u only get 2/3G services. In rural setting, no signals r common features.
That's why closet paedophile, like u, would jump on any chance to download as many porns as possible while connected to reasonable internet speed.
Wakakakakaka……
Is that HOW u can describe so vividly about those jerking experiences with porn download.? Speaking from own experience mah.
Batty-the-Bahalol completely out of his depth here, and yet have the audacity to puff up his meagre chest to trumpet his mindless ignorance, hehe. Pordah la...bodoh sombong
Deletei tok porn, n not even ccp made but japs one solely bec thats what 5g contribution to ccp community, can download 4 hours porn within 5 seconds, the rest r all just syok sendiri blow job.
DeleteCurrently the only operational 5G commercial network r in China.
DeleteHave u been to China to download any Jap porns?
If u kept to yr f*cked vow of no going to China, then where do u gain those "download 4 hours porn within 5 seconds, the rest r all just syok sendiri blow job" experience?
In bolihland with the helps of yr dangdut pals during happy hours! By the usual cheating gimmickry of 3G disguised as whatsoever G (G-string?), with free blow job!
Hehehe....CK, hahaha "If u kept to yr f*cked vow of no going to China, then where do u gain those "download 4 hours porn within 5 seconds, the rest r all just syok sendiri blow job" experience?"
DeleteLMAO ! That Bahalol knows nuts about 5G ! And even when he pretends to know, all he can talk about is porn download...ROFLMAO
u mean ccp land 5g cant even download 4 hours porn in 5 second? then sure its actually a 4.50000001g tweak to 5g to safeguard zombie thick face, the usual ccp trick of science n technology with chinese characteristic.
DeleteU meant?
DeleteBcoz u know ONLY G-string, worn by yr favourite dangdut pal than real 5G.
& U only have eyes for jap porn too!
Typical katak characteristic, especially those Formosa trained.