Sunday, September 18, 2016

Worse than a scorpion

While we are on the issue of the late Haron Din, let's hear what my Aneh, Commander (retd) S Thayaparan has to say on him, in Malaysiakini's The spirits, they knew Haron Din:

Writing of the dead American Christian extremist Reverend Jerry Falwell, Christopher Hitchens who died of cancer some years back, said, “The evil that he did will live after him. This is not just because of the wickedness that he actually preached, but because of the hole that he made in the ‘wall of separation’ that ought to divide religion from politics.”

As that particular type of Muslim Malaysian, Haron Din did not believe in that “wall of separation” between mosque and state. Indeed, he believed that the enemies of Islam - always Islam, never his political adversaries - were those who believed in “the wall”, liberalism, freedom of religion and speech, in “Western” human rights, those things that the spiritual leader told his flock were anathema to Islam.

His weltanschauung was a wall of separation between those who believed in his version of Islam and those who were the enemies of Islam, in other words those who believed in anything else, including different interpretations of Islam.

The apogee of his crusade against the so-called “enemies” of Islam was when he accused former prime minister Dr Mahathir Mohamad and de facto leader of the opposition of working with the enemies of Islam, implying the DAP and well, anyone who disagreed with him.

This did not go down well with me and I wrote, “What happens if an IS (Islamic State) sympathiser reads Haron Din’s hate speech and carries out an attack on the DAP or somebody who supports the DAP or a Muslim who supports the DAP or just that unlucky Malaysian who is caught in the cross hairs? What is the difference between Haron Din’s view of Islam and the view of those IS members waiting to murder for their cause?

“I am talking about perspectives here, not methodology. I have no idea if the spiritual adviser supports the methodology of IS. I know that he shares the same views. I know that what he wants to achieve is exactly what they want to achieve but for now, someone like him is comfortable using hate speech in service of a democratic agenda.”

This was what was so frustrating for many others and me. Haron Din was willing to use democracy to legitimately gain power and subvert those very principles once in power. Of course, the fault is in our hands. We legitimised Haron Din and his political party in the hopes that common sense would prevail over religious impulse.

Two observations arose from my reading of Aneh's words:

(1) Like most Islamists Haron Din did NOT believe in the concept of 'separation between church and state' (where I use the word 'church' in a generic sense and not to imply just the Christian church but also the Islamic, Jewish, Hindu. etc, religious organizations) but rather in a total 'separation of his Islam and that of other religious beliefs including other versions of Islamic practice'.

In other words, he was an ultra and truly intolerant of any religious beliefs that did not conform to his version of Islam, hence total separation from anyone else.

His view of Islam was the same as those believed by IS, that anyone who don't share his views would be 'enemies of Islam'.

And you know what an intolerant bloke like Haron Din and any IS member would do to those who did not share their religious views and practices. 

(2) The late Haron Din would unscrupulously use or exploit democracy (and alliance with the DAP and non Muslims) to get PAS into power, for to him any action to further Islam would never be unscrupulous, and worse, to then destroy that enabling-PAS-to-power democracy as its politics would be anathema to Islam.

He was far more cunning than the stupid scorpion riding on the back of a frog across the river. He'd only sting the frog after he reached land on the other side. In some ways he was not unlike the late LKY who did away with the communists after he rode on their tiger's back into power in Singapore.


By the by, a last point by Aneh, Haron Din was also a spiritualist, one who truly did believe in the spiritual world in Malaya, but he refused to be called a bomoh because bomohs use semi-Sanskrit and thus un-Islamic words to perform their voodoo rites whilst he used Arabic and pre-Islamic Arabic pagan words to do his, implying anything Arabic would be better than indigenous Malay words.

By the way, if my recall is correct, Haron Din was the man who warned the DAP that if Pakatan won't play ball with PAS on hudud, then PAS (then still in Pakatan) would cooperate with any other coalition (meaning UMNO, unless you can think of any other coalition prior to the formation of Ikatan and Pribumi) to push through parliament the hudud legislations. 

Under Haron Din's spiritual guidance, there was no such thing as honour, integrity and secular justice even as a member of Pakatan. He would unhesitatingly betray Pakatan at the drop of a haji cap to join UMNO.

Haron Din was not a man to deserve the epithet of 'amigo', Jeff old boy!


  1. Besides, the dead American Christian extremist Reverend Jerry Falwell, there was also that Revd Dr Ian Paisley from the Northern Ireland!

    All these scums made use of their religious trainings to justify the atrocities done in their political careers.

    Harun Din was in the similar league.

    1. 'atrocities done in their political careers' - 'Harun Din was in the similar league'?!

      what atrocities and what political careers?

      he was never elected as an 'adun'!

      dia juga tidak pernah berminat kepada sebarang jawatan di dalam kepimpinan pas!

      dia tidak pernah bertanding jawatan timbalan presiden, naib presiden mahu pun ajk pusat!

      he was also reluctant to hold the position of mursyidul am pas because of his health condition! had there be someone who was willing to hold the position of such importance, he would not have had accepted it!

    2. What an angel yr idol u have proclaimed!

      Simple question, if what u said about him is TRUTH, then what was he doing in a political party?

      Party jester to entertain all around?

      BTW, don't put words into a dead man's mouth. OK?

    3. where did i proclaim that he is an angel? don't put words into my mouth. do remember THAT! OK?

      islam dan juga perlembagaan negara ini tidak melarang sesiapa untuk berparti!

      btw what are the atrocities?

    4. Where is the political career?

      Re-read what u'd wrote about this man's tak jadi adun, tidak pernah berminat kepada sebarang jawatan di dalam kepimpinan pas, etc etc.

      Sound like angel,ta???

      One can do so many good, NOT necessary via a political party. Comprehendi?

      What atrocities?

      How about profiteering from selling 'zam-zam' water to the blurx2 ummat Islam for faith healing?

      If he was so compassionated about the pains of the suffers, WHY made money out of them?

      BTW, this act IS considered shirik in Islam - nothing, nothing over-writes the might of the ONE!

      Worst still giving them falsed hope of healing by playing god!

      Didn't he promote sectarianism of kafir-mengkafir between Non muslim, Shia & the Sunni?

      Didn't these r ALL been prohibited by the TRUE teaching of Islam which emphasizes Ummat Islam sekeluarga & be peace with all?

      Ain't these considered atrocities in the teaching of Islam?????

    5. go back to bssic.. atrocities meaning - "an extremely wicked or cruel act, typically one involving physical violence or injury"

    6. Playing semantic errrh!

      So chopping off hands of a thief, in yr understanding of yr Huduh is not atrocity lah. Banyak bagus!

      Playing sectarianism, religion or otherwise, is not atrocity?

      Telling that to all those who have suffered under the cruelty of the sectarianism all over the world lah, munafik.

    7. so you are saying the late TGHD is a munafik? you are worst than Jeff indeed. period!

    8. Tongue tied?

      Trying to rub mud all-over, including the late TGHD?

      Explain lah how my takes straying into the good late Tok Guru's honour.

      At least the late Tok Guru didn't run to a kafir land, trying to fight the will of Allah.

      He accepted Allah's ordain, at home, mind u.

      He didn't play sectarianism to split Pakistan Rakyat, hold fast to his world of Spartan simplicity.

      Most of all, a man who could see far ahead of his religious peers, for the good of bolihland.

      He was not infallible BUT he was not excessive either. Unlike the current bunch of munafik heading PAS now, putting personal misunderstanding of Islam above M'sia.

      Enough said.

    9. My sincere apology for messing up the spelling of Allahyarham Datuk Nik Abdul Aziz Nik Mat as TGHD.

      In the above comment, TGHD should be replaced by Allahyarham Datuk Nik Abdul Aziz Nik Mat.

  2. Haron Din is deeply respected by Muslims across the political divide.

    That is why the revulsion at Jeff Ooi's impertinent remarks , disrespectful of the recent death , is widespread and crosses political lines.

    1. Judging from the various comments posted on WWW, by all walks of Joe M'sian, his deeply 'respect' by ummat Islam M'sia is questionable.

      Unless, u ONLY read thoughts along yr line of thinking under the confined tempuring!😭

      Don't talk bad about the dead is a decent thing.

      Trying hard to dress up a political troll is equally revolting!

      Trying to twist a casual remark into a religious & racial slur WONT sit well with Islam, do remember THAT!!!!

  3. ironical that a Muslim like Haron Din has been buried in the evil land of the Great Satan

    1. Haron Din wanted no delay in his burial, which basically meant burial in whichever country he died in.

      The USA has 6.7 Million Muslims. Many work in the US Government and some even serve in their Military.

    2. Did u get this;

      Haron Din wanted no delay in his burial, which basically meant burial in whichever country he died in.

      from the horse mouth?

      Talking about putting words into the dad's mouth, ha!

      Let's extend yr story a little bit further about dying in the land of USA.

      If what u said was correct, then he should already know his fate then when he was still in M'sia - Allah ordained his passing!

      As a claimed 'faithful' servant of Allah, why was he still wanting to fight that fate?

      Fear of death? Thus, revolted against the WILL of his claimed god?

      More so, going to a land, more medically advanced & yet condemning time & again as a land of Satan, to fight the will of Allah!

      At the end, all comes to zilch. How contradicting, to say mildly.

      Allah ordained his death when he was still in his homeland. Yet he still went to the USofA to 'search' for alternative outcome. Perhaps thinking there was a bigger power than his current god, who COULD cast a different/new outcome for him.

      Kelakuan syirik, betul tak?

      The 'no delay in his burial' argument is just an aberration for his act of failing his religion by casting his own doubt on his religion!

      This is NOT putting down a dead man. Rather it's putting a hotstirred-up issue at hand, into a proper prospective.

      Otherwise, more racial & religious slurs WOULD surface, causing a deeper split in bolihland.

      Not justify doing so for such an insignificant event!!!!

      People die every day & there r more pressing issues facing bolihland at this critical moment!

      Grow u.....P!

    3. Islam has never forbidden people from seeking Medical Knowledge , and also seeking Medical Treatment.
      The proscription has only been against dabbling in Sorcery and the Occult, and non-Islamic religious practices.

      For centuries, when Europe was in the Dark Ages, when few could read and write, and hardly any non-religious books were published, there were thriving medical schools in the Middle East.
      Compiling into Arabic all the knowledge of Medicine from the Arabs themselves, from India and China, from the West.
      Avicenna or Hasan Ibnu Sina and Averroes or Ahmad Ibn Rashid wrote tomes on organised medical knowledge when Europe was still dependent on magical brews and potions.


      Read this latest technological advance in deciphering charred remains of document.

      It's significance bcoz it COULD solve the blank pages of history about HOW Islamic world could advance so fast in knowledge after a long period of blank civilisation development.

      One theory proposes that most of the knowledges claimed to be developed by the Islamic world actually comes from the older knowledges of the Greece/Eygpt civilisations.

      Most of these Islamic scholars learnt & translated these knowledge s into Arabic from the books kept in the great library of Alexandria.

      Unfortunately the great Alexandria library was burnt to the ground together with all its storage knowledge, during one of the invasion.

      The only copies left of those knowledge were those retained by the Islamic scholars in Arabic during their studies & translation works.

      Due to the cultural one-up-show & intervention of time, these knowledges, then, become the 'inventions/discoveries' of the Islamic world.

      There were some charred remains of scrolls discovered during the exploration of the burnt site of the old Alexandria library.

      They were unreadable due to the extensive burnt stage they suffered. No technical tools were available then to help open their secrets.

      Now, with this latest development, in time, this mystery would be resolved!

    5. KTeMok knew another logical explanation when he studied Exegesis and Hermeneutics which explained the "link" but of cause he currently no longer subscribed to........wakakaka

  4. ”Dan tiada seorang pun yang dapat mengetahui di bumi mana dia akan mati. Sesungguhnya Allah Maha Mengetahui lagi Maha Mengenal.” (QS Luqman ayat 34)

    how true! seluruh bumi, laut dan langit itu adalah kepunyaan ALLAH bukan setan atau pun manusia!

    HE knoweth best!

    1. & yet there r hypocrites trying VERY hard to re-define what Allah has bestowed to the land into me (kafir) & u (ummat Islam)!

      How ironic!!!!!!

    2. yes there are kafir munafik (hypocrites) and muslim manafik, and it is only HE who better knows who are they!

    3. That being the case why are all the mufti making all the fatwa? Why are the human enforcers forcing their interpretation onto other people. Are they usurping the 'judgment' of your GOD?


    Now Jeff Ooi faces police arrest and charges over the tweet.
    This now looks like a really bad "it could only happen in Malaysia" thing.

    BTW, Ali Tinju threatened Maria Chin with "she will no longer walk on this earth" - and no police action taken.

  6. Many Malays continue to suspect that DAP is fundamentally
    a. Anti-Malay
    b. Anti-Islam
    c. Disloyal to Malaysia.

    We are having this reinforced every few weeks by DAP members themselves. Hew Kuan Yau, Jeff Ooi, etc.....

    Just as Trump reminds people every few days that he is unfit to be the US President.

    1. Many Malays suspect?

      How many?

      Those ketuanan freaks, religious zombies & InfCom meme-ed blur sotong, ye?

      70%? 80%? 90%?

      How about <50% of all the Melayu in bolihland & 99% of them r all in umno?

      Just like day in & day out, moron, likes u, keeps reminding Joe M'sians that we r that much closer to failed state status!

  7. Aiyah when it suit you Allah never forbidden you to do this do that but Allah also say judgment is 'His' yet you always put yourself into his shoes, you are trying to say you are as Great as your GOD as you behave like God or are you trying to usurp His judgment?

  8. I'm no fan of outsyedthebox.

    But his comment about this kucil kulap death of a person sums up nicely;

    The first thing to note is that people are saying not nice things over the death of Haron Din.

    Meaning there are many people who did not like him. He was liked by some but obviously also disliked by many.

    To differentiate between the two, you would have to check their IQ levels. Of course you cannot reason with people who have low IQ levels.

    Jackpot, it's!!!!