UN report says Israeli occupation causes terror:
GENEVA - A report commissioned by the United Nations says Palestinian terrorism is the "inevitable consequence" of Israeli occupation — a claim Israel rejected Tuesday as inflammatory.
The report — posted on the UN Human Rights Council's Web site — says that while Palestinian terrorist acts are deplorable, "they must be understood as being a painful but inevitable consequence of colonialism, apartheid or occupation."
The report accuses the Jewish state of acts and policies consistent with all three.
As long as there is occupation, there will be terrorism, says the author, John Dugard, an independent investigator on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and a South African lawyer who campaigned against apartheid in the 1980s.
Dugard says in the report that "common sense ... dictates that a distinction must be drawn between acts of mindless terror, such as acts committed by al-Qaida, and acts committed in the course of a war of national liberation against colonialism, apartheid or military occupation."
The report calls for an end to the Israeli occupation, citing the country's checkpoints and roadblocks restricting Palestinian movement, house demolitions and the "Judaization" of Jerusalem.
Until the occupation is ended, "peace cannot be expected, and violence will continue," the report says.
Israel's UN ambassador in Geneva rejected Dugard's analysis.
The 25-page report will be presented next month to the 47-nation rights council.
Dugard was appointed in 2001 as an unpaid expert to investigate only violations by the Israeli side.
Israel refused to allow Dugard to conduct a UN-mandated fact-finding mission on its Gaza offensive in 2006.
kaytee's comments to the Europeans: Your Holocaust guilt slate has been wiped clean by the Israeli Nazi-like conduct and atrocities.
cuba tgk kat siniReplyDelete
How come your description of the Israelis sound so much like what the Malays do in Malaysia?ReplyDelete
Interesting comment by anonymous 12:35 AMReplyDelete
Many non-Malays in Malaysia simply don't bother or lack sympathy for the Palestinians, at least partly because of the UMNO-based racism in this country.
Me, I'm an admirer of the Tsahal
ktk46 To lossely use the words of a grat muslim convert , " No American has ever called me an infidel".ReplyDelete
I don't understand why KTemoc hates Israel so much. If the southern Thais hits Kelantan and Kedah with rockets and Malaysians have to die every now and then, wouldn't we demand that our government bomb the hell out of these people who kill our people? So the Arabs have a right to defend themselves but the not the Israelis. Israel unilaterally pull out of Gush Katif and this is what they get in return? Looks like it doesn't pay to do good. The fact remains that Arabs who are Israeli citizens and live inside Israel are the freest Arabs in the Middle East, even if they claim discrimination by the Israel.ReplyDelete
Jerusalem to Jews is like Makkah to Muslims. How would Muslims feel if they are prevented from having Makkah or if someone else wants to take over Makkah or divide it up? When Jordan was in control of Jerusalem, they breached international law by not allowing Jews to access the Western Wall. This is like saying Israel took over Makkah and prevented Muslims from going to the Kaabah or Masjid-il-Haram.ReplyDelete
anon of 2:21 AMReplyDelete
I don't recall Malaysia cordoning off southern Thailand and walling them in, switching off electricity and water and denying food, medicine & fuel from being supplied, harrassing the locals there, invading their homes, demolishing same, striking their towns and homes with F-16 jet aircraft, armed helicopters and tanks, showering their women and children with artillery bombardment, having military checkpoints just to bugger them, etc.
Which came first - the chicken or the egg....?ReplyDelete
kk46, you choose:ReplyDelete
British Balfour Declaration 1917
British Peel Commission 1936-37
European dominated UN Mandate 1947
Israel's Declaration of Independence 1948
with no agreement or acceptance of any of above coming from the real owners of the land, the Palestinians
Ktemoc of couse forget that it was the Muslim invasion of Palestine among many other places which set in motion what we see today. Pity for the arabs , never.ReplyDelete
... and you in turn have forgotten that it was Joshua and the Hebrews who invaded Canaan circa 1350 BCE ;-)ReplyDelete
Precisely, Ktemoc so why just blameReplyDelete
the British and modern Israel. The Jews are just kicking out Muslim/Arab invaders.
;-) the Palestinian, domicile in their homeland for the last continuous 1200 years, are seeking to kick out a recent (60 years old) invader from their land - there's no denying it's a very powerful invader (virtually a regional superpower but only because it is armed by the USA) like WWII Japan and Nazi Germany were. The invader was abetted then by a colonial Britain who gave away colonised lands as if those were its right to give away. The invader is currently abetted by the Christain Right controlled US Administration.ReplyDelete
Come to think about it, if people were regularly lobbing rockets and shells into Malaysia from the Thai side of the border, Malaysia probably would be taking very violent actions in return...and I would support it....ReplyDelete
kk46, as I had commented earlier I don't recall Malaysia cordoning off southern Thailand and walling them in, switching off electricity and water and denying food, medicine & fuel from being supplied, harrassing the locals there, invading their homes, demolishing same, striking their towns and homes with F-16 jet aircraft, armed helicopters and tanks, showering their women and children with artillery bombardment, having military checkpoints just to bugger them, etc so why would peoplefrom the Thai side of the border be lobbing rockets and shells into Malaysia?ReplyDelete
Your argument falls flat liao ;-)
An invader no matter how long they have occupied a land remains an invader. In fact their 1,200 year rule in Palestine shows they were very powerful invaders. Just because the Muslim/Arab invaders were presumebly not abetted by others does not make them non invaders. Moreover, the Arabs /Muslims by the time they invaded Palestine were alraedy a superpower with a military machine second to none. Or, are you telling me there is such a thing as a greater or lesser invader.ReplyDelete
Palestine or Israel as it is known today is a hotly contested piece of real estate. Both contestants in this case given your argument has the right to claim the place. Unfortunately, in such a contest there is no right or wrong only might, just like the Chinese invasion of Tibet. Sad but true.
Hamas is purposely letting its people suffer while it smuggles arms and money in Gaza. The katushyas they fire into Israel is proof of thweir ability to smuggle heavy arms as these rockets need to be launched fron launchers the size of a kancil. If Hamas can smuggle such heavy arms why not smuggle food for the people they proclaim to protect. The Palestinians suffer because they chose the corrupt Palestinian authority to represent Them in the West Bank. They suffer in the Gaza because they chose a cynical Hamas who is willing to let ist people suffer so as to score propaganda points. Ultimately, it is the Palestinians who bring misery upon themselves. One gets the government one deserve. I do not know who is the graetr enemy of the Palestinians: the Isralis who are ponding the shit out of them or their stupidity which allows themselves to be ruled by corrupt and cynical people.ReplyDelete
Tell me Ktemoc which is worse.
anon of 2:26 PM, throughout history, there have been invaders, like European invasion and occupation of the Americas, Australia, NZ, Asia and Africa, but in modern times their colonies were given independence - modern values do not condone colonialism, occupation (Iraq!!!) and especially Apartheid, 3 evils of Israel which collectively form the thread in my post.ReplyDelete
Yes, some descendants of the white men settled in North America, Australia and NZ because the natives were relatively few in numbers (thanks to white settlers' genocidal killing of natives) but where the natives are the majority (India, Kenya, etc) most have returned home with a rare few remaining as citizens of their new country.
The Palestinians have been in continuous settlement on their land for 1200 years. The European Jews, whose only claim to the land lies in the biblical stories, were recent invaders with no legal or even historical right to the land - religious tales are not history. They were dumped there by a combination of European guilt and Christian colonial arrogance (and perhaps even with an attitude of 'good riddance'), in a typically colonial heavy-handed approach that totally ignored the Arab natives' rights and ownership.
The European Jews homeland for the last 2000 years (save for their illegal occupation of Palestine in the last 60) were Poland and the adjoining area of the old USSR (Belorussia and also Russia) - Warsaw, Lotz and Minsk were their world. When you have been in an area for 1000 years or more, that's your country, not Palestine just because of a religious belief.
I had also read: With some exceptions among individuals, and with the exception of commercial transactions, Jewish communities in pre-war Poland largely functioned as insular, self-absorbed, elitist, and self-positioned "strangers" in Polish society. The gulf between Polish Christians and Jews was enormous; in pre-Holocaust Poland, for example, the intermarriage rate between Poles and Jews was only one per cent. This ethnic isolation was self-imposed by Jews from the earliest times of their residence in Poland. Most Jews consciously chose not to assimilate into Polish society, many could not even speak Polish, and few had friendly relationships with the non-Jews around them.
If those European Jews weren't accepted by the Poles or Russians, you needn't ask why anymore. But in the final analysis they were and should be Europeans. By occupying and continuous stealing Palestinian land, they have become the new colonialists. But most people, even Arabs, are quite prepared to accept an Israel, but ONLY IF the borders are that of pre 1967 War.
anon of 10:00 PM, the Palestinian people voted for HAMAS, a democratically elected government whilst rejecting the corrupt FATAH.ReplyDelete
While I personally frown upon theocratic politics and its religious parties, I have to recognise that it is the wish of the Palestinian people that they be led by HAMAS. The Yanks and of course Israel as the real driving force want a corrupt FATAH - by the way, are you aware that when Yasser Arafat was alive, Israel was covetly funding and arming HAMAS to undermine Yasser and FATAH? Well, Israel deserves the poisonous crop they seeded and fertilised in their evil.
If you were a Palestinian (which of course you would never ever be) you would support those who fight against a brutal and oppressive occupying powers, whether the freedom fighters are HAMAS or FATAH, or were Chinese resistance in Malaya during the Jap occupation, the Marquis in France, ANC in Apartheid S Africa, and even Mugabe in white ruled Rhodesia (that the last turned out to be a completely incompetent and corrupt administrator doesn't hide the fact he was a freedom fighter against the Ian Smith's white racist Regime).
Your statement "Hamas is purposely letting its people suffer while it smuggles arms and money in Gaza" is such ill-informed nonsense that it shouldn't merit a response but I'll be generous and emlighten you that the USA (under the direction of Israel) had embargoed all financial flow to the Palestinian government of HAMAS, causing severe hardship, starvation and suffering among the Palestinian people.
To alleviate the sufferings of the Palestinian people, HAMAS has conceded some grounds of authority to FATAH as the Palestinian administration even though the latter were NOT democratically elected to be government, because with FATAH, the Yanks/Israelis would allow money to flow in again. FATAH has now become the puppet government of the USA who in turn is the (religious) puppet of Israel.
Has that been that a sign of a democratically elected HAMAS' wish to let its people suffer? By contrast, the USA/Israel were prepared to let the Palestinians suffer until the government they had elected give way to an unelected but puppet government of foreigners. The Americans/Israelis believe in the old maxim of "flog those natives until their morale improve".
Then for you to suggest that the Palestinians deserves to suffer hunger because they refuse to surrender their democratic rights to freely elect whom they want, surely has to be your greatest shame.
Reality precedes everything we may find to be ideal. Reality is the one doing the suffering arethe Palestinians. Like you said they ELECTED Hamas into power. In a democracy if one wants to be elected into power one better bloody amke sure one has the means to ensure the safety and comfort of the people who vote you into power. The blame for failure here is obvious. As for the European Jews who were dumped ther, that is another reality the palestinians will have to deal with.ReplyDelete
One more thing the Muslim armies did CONQUER Palestine. The Jews kicked them out, too bad. Also, if can smuggle haevy arms one can also smuggle food. Failure to do so is to PURPOSELY let on's people suffer.
I don't see you able to continue the debate in a meaningful way other than to offer obduracy and plain silliness.ReplyDelete
I won't continue on an increasingly barren intellectual landscape.
Run and hide Ktemoc.That's what you are good at. Hide behind your democratic ideals and intellect. What solution can YOU offer the Palestinians. F----AllReplyDelete