Saturday, December 29, 2012

Now, who are the Arab wannabes?

God in Bahasa is ……..?

By now, we would have been well and truly conversant with the legal, etymological or historical use of the ‘Allah’ word in the Catholic news letter, the Herald, and the Malay language Bible (al Kitab).

And let's not forget the political element as well as the Allah word also serves those with an agenda, a political agenda.

It had been the Catholic Herald’s insistence on using Allah as the Bahasa (Malay language) equivalent of God in the al Kitab which had started the name-calling (wakakaka) brouhaha three years ago.

Now, just a wee review of the various aspects of the name-calling (wakakaka) tussle:

Legally, High Court Judge Lau Bee Lan had ruled as unconstitutional the Malaysian government’s ban of the use of Allah as the Bahasa equivalent of the word God in the Catholic Herald.

I believe the government (then with Syed Hamid as the Home Minister) had indicated it would appeal. I am not sure where that appeal currently stands?

On the etymological front, a number of academicians including Muslims have traced its usage to pre Islamic era, and explained that both Arab Muslims and Christians refer to their respective gods as Allah. Of course we shouldn't challenge the finding of their highly qualified clarifications, but nonetheless I have something to comment on the etymological aspect of the Allah word shortly.

Historically, it has been agreed that Dutch Christian missionaries sometime in the 16th Century translated the Bible into the Indonesian language by using the word Allah for God.

Why those Dutch missionaries did so has not been questioned nor discussed much but that they had used Allah has been deemed by the Catholic Herald as a precedent which must continue to be accepted even today. I'll also come to this soon.

Politically, of the two Malay-Muslim parties, UMNO said-says ‘no’, PAS said ‘it’s alright’ but something new has just cropped up, where PAS has now changed its mind about the word Allah as the equivalent of God in the Malay language version of the Bible.

Yes, PAS has just said ‘no’ as well (to add to UMNO’s 'nay'), showing its lamentable character in the same way as had been indicated by its recently disintegrated 'promise' wakakaka that non-Muslims won’t be affected by Islamic laws (and/or municipality rules based on Islamic moral values).

PAS’ lack of reliability in its belakang pusing (volte face) from its promise has been a classic case of the Malay idiom cakap ta’serupa bikin. No mate, you can't trust any politician, even and especially those from a religious party, be it Islamic, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Confucianist, Taoist, Bahāʾīs or Ayah Pin-ish, etc, wakakaka.

But let’s leave out this troubling though not unexpected side of PAS vis-à-vis non-Muslims in this post, where we can then discuss the topic in a future post.

This post is about the use of the word Allah as the Bahasa (Malay language) equivalent of God in the Bible.


And I'll be frank that I will undoubtedly hurt many of my Christian friends as I did 3 years ago when this topic first flared up. While I believe on principle there ought not to be a monopolistic use of any word or words, I can understand the Muslim community's worries about the Church’s obdurate intention to use this word, especially more so when I know it’s obligatory, nay, a sacred duty of the Church and Christians to be ‘missionary’ (evangelistic).

Yes, I'm afraid on a personal basis, kaytee isn't all that supportive of the Church’s insistence on using the Allah word to represent/indicate/describe their Christian God in the Malay language.

Perhaps let me declare my religious affiliations so that you can be clear where I am coming from (or going to, wakakaka).

I was born to very staunch Buddhist parents. My late dad and his mum were devoted Theravada Buddhists whilst my late mum was Mahayana Buddhist, not that they knew the difference between those schools of Buddhism. Once I attempted to explain to my mum (when she was alive) about the schools’ doctrinal differences but I gave up when I saw the annoyed look on her face, wakakaka.

Both my granddads were non-practising Taoists-Confucianists, which may explain why I'm an atheist, wakakaka. Anyway, I am neither Christian nor Muslim.


Okay, let’s consider the etymological angle of the Allah word first. Yes, I'm confident of the accuracy of those who have traced the Allah word and its usage to pre Islamic era, and who have also explained that both Arab Muslims and Christians refer to their respective gods as Allah.

Yup, I, you, we have all heard the several arguments that Allah is an Arabic word meaning god and not necessarily that of the God of Islam only ... yadda yadda yadda ... and therefore Christians have every right to employ this Allah word because of the word’s genericalness.

Notwithstanding its etymological certification, let me tell you what I think of the pro arguments.

First of all, my caustic remarks wakakaka do not apply to all, but only those who feel my sarcasm, wakakaka.

I am not surprised by the hypocrisy of some of those who advocate this argument, that because Allah is a generic Arabic word for god (not necessarily that of Islam,) the Church and Christians in Malaysia have the right to use it as the Bahasa translation of God.

They are/were hypocritical because:

(a) these very ‘some’ people have been those who have been at laughing (as well as sneering) at the orthodox Malay Muslims (or if you like, Muslim Malays) for wanting to be Arabs or to be Arab-ized rather than just being Muslims, from and in the way they dress in Middle-Eastern desert garb instead of our Malaysian tropical baju or sarung kebaya, etc, or resort to Arabic words when Malay equivalents are available, etc etc.

* Incidentally I'm also one who laughs at Arab wannabes, wakakaka.

Now, aren't these Christians and their supporters, in arguing for the use of the generic Arabic word Allah as the Bahasa equivalent of God, themselves also Arab wannabes?

(b) hey man, aren't we talking about a Bahasa word for God? Why then invoke an Arabic word?

If they don’t like the word Tuhan because the Church argued that in some instances, the word Tuhan (God) does not convey the required meaning in a biblical passage, why not a Hebrew word then, when after all, Judaism and Christianity share the same God, rather than the one Muslims believe in (yes, this is debatable too)?

Just as an aside, I wonder what’s the Bahasa word for Father in the Malay language al Kitab? Would it be ‘Ab or Ayah? Please let me know!

Look, there are so many names for the Hebrew-Christian God, such as YVWH (Yahweh or, Jehovah), Elohim, Adonai, as well as the following (with their English meanings):

Adonai-Jehovah - The Lord our Sovereign
El-Elyon -- The Lord Most High
El-Olam - The Everlasting God
El-Shaddai - The God Who is Sufficient for the Needs of His People
Jehovah-Elohim - The Eternal Creator
Jehovah-Jireh - The Lord our Provider
Jehovah-Nissi - The Lord our Banner
Jehovah-Ropheka - The Lord our Healer
Jehovah-Shalom - The Lord our Peace
Jehovah-Tsidkenu - The Lord our Righteousness
Jehovah-Mekaddishkem - The Lord our Sanctifier
Jehovah-Sabaoth - The Lord of Hosts
Jehovah-Shammah - The Lord is Present
Jehovah-Rohi - The Lord our Shepherd
Jehovah-Hoseenu - The Lord our Maker
Jehovah-Eloheenu - The Lord our God

And many many more exists.

God's names - Kabbala

Will this range of Godly names in Hebrew satisfy the Church’s requirement that in some instances, the word Tuhan does not adequately convey the required meaning in a biblical passage?

C’mon, tell me why the Church must use the Arabic word for God and not the Hebrew equivalent? [Just leave the historical angle aside for a while as I'll be coming to it soon].

Let’s see what the Tanakh (Jewish bible) says in Genesis 1:1?

"In the beginning Elohim created the heaven and the earth ...".

Now, tell me, doesn't that indicate to us, in fact indisputably, what is God’s name? So why won’t the Church use Elohim?

Just as a double check, let’s look at the English Bible [King James Version] of the same passage, where it confirms that "In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth ... "

Thus, on top of Tuhan for God, we have the Hebraic Elohim for God, that is, if the Church doesn't like the word Tuhan. And as I have shown above, there are many more alternatives for God or God’s names.

In Hebrew (not Aramaic), some have argued that the word Elohim is plural, but as per the Tanakh it is considered as a singular noun and indeed uses the verb for such. It is meant to signal the single God of Israel, but you know what, it is actually ideal for the Christian concept of God as a Trinity, Three yet One.

Velly gnam gnam one lah!

Let us now turn our attention on the man who started it all, Father Lawrence Andrew of the Catholic Church and the editor of the Catholic Herald.

Given the experts’ etymological and historical clarifications on the Allah word, I am in no doubt that Father Lawrence Andrew is on strong legal grounds to use it ... and indeed we know that the court has supported his stand.

But I have always believed that religion is about faith and morality and not legality or for that matter, political approval. Thus I find it unfortunate that the Father Andrew and the Catholic Herald had taken the issue to the courts. Surely on a matter of religious faith and knowledge, there are numerous other names of God it could have use beside Allah. I view its arguments for the use of Allah as seemingly based on obduracy and legality rather than any plausible unavoidable reason.

So why has Father Lawrence Andrew stubbornly insisted on doing so?

Let me start off by quoting what he told AFP in April 2009 about the release of a new Malay language bible that does not use the word ‘Allah’. The news item was picked up by the Free Republic, a conservative American online news portal.

Father Andrew was mightily displeased because the new Malay-language Bible had referred to God as … hello hello there … Elohim rather than Allah.

He stated "The Catholic bible that the church uses has the word Allah for God whereas in comparison, this one does not."

"The new Malay bible weakens the argument for using the word Allah because some groups are trying to substitute God with a foreign name, whereas Allah is the Malay word for God and has been the accepted translation for centuries."

Firstly, I find it rather bizarre, incomprehensible and illogical that Father Andrew would assert Elohim to be a foreign name for God (which BTW it is, but wait) while in the same breath dare to claim Allah is not (but a Malay word).

I can’t find any logic in his bizarre assertion that Allah is a home grown Malay word while at the same time mouthing the 'foreignness' of the Judeo-Christian Elohim.

Haven’t the language experts already asserted that the word Allah could be traced to its usage even in pre Islamic era in the Middle-East, and also explained that both Arab Muslims and Christians refer to their respective gods with that Arabic word, hence it has to be an Arabic (not Malay) word.

Methinks, or rather I'm worried, Father Andrew had become like Dr Syed Ali Tawfik Al-Attas, the director general of the Institute of Islamic Understanding, who informed us in 2006 that:

“The Melayu is defined as first being a Muslim and because he’s a Muslim, he follows the customs and traditions of the Malays which are derived from Islam, followed by the language of the Malays which (also) derives from Islam.”

"... the language of the Malays ... derives from Islam"?

Yes, Father Andrew would not be unlike Dr Syed Ali Tawfik Al-Attas, in claiming Allah is a Malay word for God [while in the same breath arguing Elohim is a foreign name].

I wonder whether Father Andrew would consider 'Yeshua', 'Isa' or even 'Jesus' as ‘foreign’ names, and seek their Bahasa equivalents? And as he is from the Catholic Church, may I ask him what he considers the Holy Virgin Mother’s name of 'Mary' or 'Mariam' to be in Bahasa?

Then one just has to ask why he considered the new Malay-language bible as ‘weakening’ the use of Allah when it has actually reinforced the original reference to God’s name as Elohim?

Or, perhaps in his subconscious, he had meant that '... the new Malay-language bible as ‘weakening’ his and the Church insistence on the use of Allah'.

Now consider this, hasn't the Catholic Mass which was originally conducted only in Latin, since been changed to the language of the locals? So why can’t the use of Allah in the Indonesian al Kitab, as translated by Dutch missionaries hundreds of years ago, be changed to Elohim, ...

... that is, assuming the Church insists on using the Indonesian version of al Kitab and not the newly published Malaysian edition?

It seems that Father Andrew had been dead set on using the Arabic word Allah to refer to the Christian God, regardless of the superior pedigree (in the Judeo-Christian context) of God’s other names as revealed in the Bible.

And on the pedigree of God’s names, just to reiterate, the first revelation of God’s personal identity has been in the Tanakh (Jewish Bible) Book of Genesis 1:1 which says: "In the beginning Elohim created the heaven and the earth."

So, why did Father Andrew consider Elohim a foreign name as if it's alien to Christianity, while Allah is not? Aren't we talking about the God of the Judeo-Christian faith? Or, are we discussing the God of the Islamic faith?

The second name of the Judeo-Christian Divine One as revealed to Moses was YVWH or Yahweh (later modified to Jehovah) which means 'I AM WHO I AM' or 'I WILL BE WHO I WILL BE'.

Yahweh is mentioned 6823 times in the Old Testament, while Elohim scores 2570 times. How many times is Allah?

In fact Elohim is used 66 times at the beginning of the Bible before any other Hebrew word appears for the English word God.

There are various other names besides Elohim and Yahweh to describe God and Jesus (eg. Immanuel), with the latter being found in the New Testament.

Really, what is the motive behind Father Andrew’s rejection of Elohim, the original name of the Judeo-Christian God, and his obdurate insistence on the use of the Arabic Allah to refer to the Christian God when locally it has always been recognized that Allah refers to the God of the Islamic faith?

We now arrive at the historical aspect of the issue, that Dutch Christian missionaries sometime in the 16th Century translated the Bible into the Indonesian language by using the word Allah for God.

As mentioned, why those Dutch missionaries did so had not been questioned but that they had used Allah has been seized by the Catholic Herald as a precedent which must continue to be accepted even today.

Firstly, the Dutch were known by the Indons as cruel and arrogant colonialists who didn't give two figs about the natives and their feelings.

Secondly, let us also not forget that Christianity and indeed Islam as well are both evangelistic missionary religions with an obligation on the faithful to convert the so-called pagans, for altruistic reasons of course.

But the late A Powell Davies, a minister of the All Souls Church in Washington, advised us that “True religion, like our founding principles, requires that the rights of the disbeliever be equally acknowledged with those of the believer.” I reckon the well-meaning bloke was pissing into the wind.

I dare say those Dutch Christian missionaries were out to convert the Indonesian pagans (Muslim and others) into Christianity with whatever it took, and would have found the use of the word Allah as a convenient substitute for the Christian God in persuading the native Muslims that the conversion to Christianity would be nothing more than a seamless worship to the same Allah, albeit with some minor adjustments to the rituals.

Thus the argument that the 16th Century Dutch had been doing this or that during dictatorial colonial circumstances would today be just not good enough for the Church to persist along that line.

Besides, we know the Bahasa word Tuhan is available, and if it is not suitable enough, then there are numerous alternatives to the God word without the need to infringe on the Muslims’ Allah.

The other argument that the local Church is dependent on Indonesian publication has been overthrown by Father Andrew himself, when he told AFP in April 2009 there was a release of a new Malay language bible that does not use the word Allah.

That he didn't like it is beside the point but it disproves that old argument that the Church had no choice but to use the Allah word as it is dependent on the Indon publication of al Kitab, which carries the Allah word.

It’s also an insult to Sabahans and Sarawakians to argue they would be confused if the al Kitab carries the word Tuhan or Elohim or Yahweh or Adonai for God.

Really, I have to ask again of Father Lawrence Andrew and the Church: “What is really your goal in obdurately pursuing the use of the word Allah to refer to the Christian God in a Malay-language newsletter and Bible when so many other names of your Christian God, with even better biblical pedigree, remain available?”

Friedrich Nietzsche reminded us: “Many are stubborn in pursuit of the path they have chosen, few in pursuit of the goal.”

But all my views above do not mean I support PAS’ belakang pusing, wakakaka.


  1. Most of the religions have gods.Those that have not pray to statues.In Malaysia Allah is God,and God is Allah.So what is the problem with these stupid goofies if Christians want to use the word Allah to call their God.Afterall in Malaysia Allah is God,and God is Allah.So what is the big deal,you racists.

  2. I have travelled through many countries, and I'm well aware that even in staunchly Muslim countries, many of them tolerate the use of "Allah" by non-Muslim communities as the name for their monotheistic God. Similarly, in the interior of Borneo, Christian missionaries used the word. Its a socio-historical matter, not an absolute legal matter, and most societies have wisely adopted laisseze-faire approach.

    Let me repeat myself - its a socio-historical matter, not an absolute legal matter.
    The reality in Tanah Melayu - Malaya - is that the Malays have historically considered Allah as a unique, indivisible name for God in Islam. Do not use it in Christianity to confuse matters.
    I have in vain tried to explain this to Christian friends.
    Live and let live with its use in Borneo, but don't try to have its use legalised as the law of the land.
    Its not a battle worth fighting.

    And I may add, it was extremely unwise for Lim Guan Eng to use the Penang Chief Minister's Christmas speech to politicize this matter.

    And I take it as just another example of DAP's insensitivity towards Malays and Muslims.
    I know Zairil is little more than a boy, but maybe LGE should have had a little chat with him on the speech.

  3. KT, while I applaud your logic but have you considered the followings?
    1) Common usage of various common words, not only Allah, by common folks for decades if not centuries. Any changes will cause confusion.
    2) Religious rights being slowly eroded. The Allah word together a list of others exclusive words only for Muslims. This might only be a start. Soon they will ban Christians from using the Malay language for fear of proselytism!
    3) Having exclusive use of Malay language for Islam, they will complete their Islamisation of all locals who speak only Malay.

    Can the Christians call for Arabic or Jawi be only be used in Mosque? The conundrum continues...

  4. 1st, Allah is an Arabic word, adopted by the Malay, who used Tuhan to describe their God.

    So, based on this simple etymological track, the used of ANY word/name to describe a Superbeing that the follower used was/is Highly localised. It should not be monopolised, just like some local Muslims like to dictate!

    Yr long-winded story, basically, subscribed to that. Basically it adds Nothing to the debate, BUT to further agitate it cloudiness among the blur-sotongs, belivers/non-believers inclusive.

    Faith is a personal feeling. Between The One & the followers, why should that description be paramount?

    This Allah/Tuhan/Whatever His/Her name is being manipulated to stir religious emotion to gain Political leverage.

    The middle finger should be Rightly points to the politicians of the day!

  5. I assume this posting is logic as claimed, at least PAS belakang pusing is a turn to more logical one, how come not much comment wrt DAP and LGE belakang pusing?

  6. well HY, you read it and form your own opinion as to whether it's logical; I can't help you here. If you wish to read posts on alleged DAP's belakang pusing or any other topics of your preference, it's very easy, just have your own blog and post such articles or search for blogs posting such. I can recommend an anti DAP blogger to you - she's Helen Ang blogging at Otherwise, just read what I and other bloggers have to offer.

    1. Helen can sometimes use foul language, when provoked, like this one : "YOU are talking through the Tokong’s @r$e#0!e."

    2. u shd have feel very moving and proud I divert every topic to dap, exactly like what u did to pkr/pas. did not people said imitation is the highest form of flattery? moreover i don’t need employing any vile language. wakakaka.

      i commented on helanang since almost day one when she started her blog so I don’t need any further testimonial, she is full of hatred, bias and prejudice exactly like .....hmmm wakakaka.

    3. Everyone arguing here about the use of "ALLAH" Please lah all of us , whatever your religion, are God's creatures. Do you all think that by arguing and imposing your ways on others will guarantee you a place in heaven? Just live a clean life without hurting, stealing, cheating, conning, corruption, unfairness, murdering, bearing false witness against others, ethnic cleansing, genocide and etc. I am sure God has no need for such quarrels that is taking place here now.
      I love calling my mother "MAMA" and not any other way. Please respect me.
      As for the Christians don't waste your time fighting for the use of "ALLAH" You people do good and GOD will love you just the same.Its only a "WORD"
      In Indonesia many Muslims have converted to Christianity because the converts start to believe in the Christian teachings and see the good examples of the many Christians there. Many are put off by the goings on there among their previous kind.. I know this because I live among them there.
      Christians please live by your teachings and eventually even your enemies will come to understand and love you.

    4. "...she is full of hatred, bias and prejudice exactly like .....hmmm wakakaka."

      May I take the liberty to finish your's too enticing to just let this go, so here goes :

      She is full hatred, bias and prejudice exactly like Hua Yong whose hatred for DAP knows no bound and he is the male version of that scorned woman mentioned above ?....hmmmm wakakaka

    5. like I’ve said imitation is the highest form of flattery. It’s too bad that flattery coming from you isn’t worth much, in fact showing a dearth of originality. i hope u don’t write anymore remark to my attention unless u has an argument to make, which so far is none. meanwhile, go get ur mommy to teach u how to write ur mommy name in ur mother language, u dun even know the different when I write in mandarin or cantonese, shame la mommy boy.

    6. Anon 5:38,

      I've found Helen to be basically a hypocrite. She would accuse others of perpetuating hatred & hysteria, but all of her articles will feature half truths & manufactured accusations toward Christians, Hannah, or the DAP that will be guaranteed to get ants-to-sugar responses from her hardline Malay readership.

      The biggest irony; she claims to defend Chinese culture & schools, while her readership that she so nods and agrees with, will not hesitate to shut down the Chinese schools & restrict practices of other religions & cultures if they had the power.

    7. " get ants-to-sugar response..." - to me it's more like Helen is supplying her addicts with their daily fix, consequently some get high and respond with inflammatory remarks like "... Definitely, to be born a Chinese will be my last choice. I will definitely beg God not to make me a Malaysian Chinese..."
      "... Orang Vietnam pun benci orang Cina, begitu juga orang Filipina, orang Tibet dan orang Russia. Kenapa ramai sangat kaum-kaum di dunia ini membenci orang Cina?.. "

      And Helen, with her "Aku Cina" blog slogan, just condone such remarks without a flinch.

    8. Anyone have any idea why one particular condescending mandarin nazi here insists sneeringly that in order to be of a particular race, one must 'prove' it by evidence of being able to one's name, or now additionally, one's mother's name in his/her own race's language ? Uhh ??? My driver and the house help are chinese too, but unable to write a single word in chinese....does that mean they are not chinese ? These people are very very chinese to me....the way the behave, talk, sing, live their lives, celebrate all the chinese festivities, watching all the chinese movies and tv drama series, etc etc. Haha...they could have fooled me...may be they are NOT chinese ? Just some slitty eyed straight hair chinese-looking specimen but they are NOT chinese ? Kakakaka

  7. Similar to the BM Bible, the Indonesian Bible, the AlKitab, uses "Allah" for "God" while "TUHAN" is used for "LORD". Thus,

    "2:4 Demikianlah riwayat langit dan bumi pada waktu diciptakan. Ketika TUHAN Allah menjadikan bumi dan langit, --
    2:5 belum ada semak apapun di bumi, belum timbul tumbuh-tumbuhan apapun di padang, sebab TUHAN Allah belum menurunkan hujan ke bumi, dan belum ada orang untuk mengusahakan tanah itu;
    2:6 tetapi ada kabut naik ke atas dari bumi dan membasahi seluruh permukaan bumi itu--
    2:7 ketika itulah TUHAN Allah membentuk manusia itu dari debu tanah dan menghembuskan nafas hidup ke dalam hidungnya; demikianlah manusia itu menjadi makhluk yang hidup." Kejadian 2 (Genesis 2)

  8. KT,
    Can anyone discuss religion objectively(?)? Obviously not, even after thousands of years they are still at it. As a self-proclaimed atheist, just keep out of this. You are not making any new friends and frankly they don't give 2 hoots to what you say.

    1. I didn't start blogging with an objective to make friends, though I have, and good ones too. And I don't give too hoots too whether my readers pay or don't pay any heed to what I say - it's entirely up to them. I blog because that's what I want to say.

    2. KT, agree that u hav your right of opinion. As an aetheist myself too i prefer to shy away from speaking to a beliver about religeon. This is because they wont be able to see religeon from your point of view and when claiming to be an aetheist, the beliver will most likely not take what you say in a constructive manner because if u dont belive in god, how did u become an expert about religeon? I belive your point here is more about tolerence (or the lack of it) shown by belivers from both divides. There will always be confusion when both sides speak in a different 'language'. Nice write-up though.. enjoyed the read

    3. KT,
      this is exactly what I meant. In Chinese we have an idiom to describe this - " dui niu tan qin".

  9. KT

    Your argument is not sound. Why should another religion forbid another religion from using a word. If we allow this precedent there will be no end to it. Will you be happy if I forbid you from using certain words because I find it offensive? Who am I to impose this on you? If I forbid you to call your wife, your brother or sister with an alternative name because I find it offensive with their current names which you been calling them all these years. Will you be glad? Please think through.

  10. "True religion.....requires that the rights of the disbeliever be equally acknowledged with those of the believer.”

    Strangely this is exactly what the Quran says, and what the Prophet teaches.


  11. Soon we will be calling you Pastor Kaytee.How does that sounds?Wakakakaka.

  12. Kaytee,which title best suit you,and would you preferred.Father or Pastor Kaytee.For such in depth knowledge in this subject,Professor Kaytee would be an insult.Don't you agree.

  13. Kita berdiskusi tentang Al kitab dan penggunaan kata Allah didalamnya tetapi semua komen dalam Bahasa Inggeris. Siapa pembaca sasaran Al kitabni hah.....ayuh katakan "Tiada Tuhan melainkan Allah, dan Muhammad itu pesuruh Nya"

  14. He is promoting something for someone, disguised as a free thinker.

  15. Bro Kaytee is the new messier of Christianity.Go bro go,have more articles of this types.Soon all the Melayus will commit apostasy.Then katak Abrahim Ali and his thugs will go after you,even if you hiding in Australia.

  16. Thank, delete that, thank goodness I'm an atheist. Unbelievable isn't it....full grown adults, some of whom are grandfathers too, going at it hammer and tongs fighting for patent right the name to call their imaginary gods. Worse, when the politicians jump in into the mix, then we might see things could get REALLY even more ugly.

    To hell with all you religionists. And to hell with these politicians too. Btw, to an atheist, 'hell' is just a deep, deep hole in the ground where worms make feast of rotten bodies. So all you troublemakers, GO TO HELL....

  17. For months after the "Allah" controversy broke out, my attitude was that the Christian groups insisting on using Allah were just being stubborn, bloody-minded and they should just compromise and let the issue go to sleep.
    My alarm grew as I listened to the statements from Malay groups , which also led me to delve deeper into the subject.

    Historically, there are no injunctions in Islamic law against other believers of monotheistic religions calling their God "Allah". That's obvious, as the Arabs as well as the Indonesians are fairly relaxed on the matter.
    What we have here are really Peninsular Malay mores and preconceptions , even prejudice, that "Allah" is an Islamic "copyright" or "patent". It clearly is not.
    Since no such laws existed in 1957 or 1963 or even 1980, what we have here is Kerajaan Malaysia attempting to create a new religious legal constriction where none previously existed.

    Essentially Kerajaan Malaysia is using Malay cultural prejudices to dictate restrictions and interdictions to the right of Non-Muslims to practice their religion in peace, and within the confines of their religious community.
    That right must include the right to use scriptures in the Language that practioners are most comfortable using, and the right to call their deity using their chosen Name. UMNO likes to talk about the "Merdeka Social Contract". This to me, is a violation of the Merdeka Constitution and Social Contract.

    I don't have a personal stake in this - I'm what you may call a lapsed Buddhist. I visit the Vihara maybe once a year to pay my respects to the Buddha, that's about it.
    But I'm mindful of the words of Martin-Niemöller.

    First they came for the communists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
    Then they came for the socialists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.
    Then they came for me,
    and there was no one left to speak for me.

    1. Very well put, Subang. But as in all things UMNO administration, their Ketuanan is a one-way street for their malay race.....they have the right to amend the constitution thousands of time to guard what they perceived to be their interest and to hell with the rights of the minority non-malays. They have the right to create new laws and rulings ONLY from their perspective without no prior consultation/discussion with the rest and to hell with the minority's rights.

      It is very spot-on about your comment that this Allah thingy is a very Malay preconceived idea how they call their god.....that the name Allah belongs to the malays ( in this country ) and no one else has the right to use that name or even refer to that name in passing. And to the islamist religionists, they are scared stiff their their bleating sheeps will get 'conpused' lah. Now with GE just round the corner, the politicians are all out to make full capital on this, and PAS is no different has to make u turn in order not to have the sh*t splattered on their face.

    2. Subang,

      Your comments hit the nail on the head. Ktemoc has ignored the fact that 'Allah' in the Bible has been used, without alarm from the government, before and after Merdeka. In fact, the first objections started 20-30 years later, the 1980s with some government officials declaring a prohibition. It definetely didn't start with the Herald case in 2009, and that itself was a reaction to a Home Ministry decree to prohibit the Malay version of the Herald newspaper.

      The elephant in the room that Ktemoc misses is the increasing intolerance of government officials & hardliners toward minorities. Aside from calls to ban "Allah" in the AlKitab, there are calls to ban the AlKitab itself, from groups like Perkasa that are fearful that this Malay bible will murtad-ize Malay Muslims, with or without "Allah" in it. Concurrently, these groups are unaware that the majority of Malaysian Christians are actually Bumis... from Sabah & Sarawak, and the interiors.

  18. I rarely comment on religion topic since I know very little, I cite here one case that quite resemble with what happened.

    Elohim were translated into both ‘shen’ (神) and ‘shangdi’ (上帝)in Chinese, ‘shen’ is actually quite confusing because both Tao and Confucius use the term ‘shen’ but the amusing part is not many care. So the bible pusher would ask the Chinese do you prefer the ‘shen’ edition or ‘shangdi’ edition? As long as you make sure my kids pass exam, whatever edition would do, i guess this is most probably how Chinese would reply.

    Btw, sz write a piece on 神 quote helenang and a Mkini reader named CW Ng, not sure this CW Ng fella are being sarcastic or get his/her logic upside down, and extremely dumb (just read his/her dumb statement Buddhist use “Fo Duo or “Pu Sak” and do not want to create inharmony with the Christian), in fact his/her Christian friend is right that Buddhism not suppose to use ‘shen’ provided he/she a exclusive Buddhist and not a rojak one like me n perhaps kt the host, Buddhism disagree with the ‘shen’ concept, but most Chinese prefer ‘sky full of gods and Buddhas’ (滿天神佛 / all hell break loose) as long as, again, our kids pass exam.

    Funny la all this Buddhist and Chinese wannabes, even write an article refer to a dumb comment, this is the problem when their mommy don’t teach them to write their mommy name in Chinese.

    1. Buddhism is not about stuff like gods or spirits [shen]. In fact Buddhism does not believe in a creator god or apocalypse.

      I can provide a 101% guarantee that Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism won't ever see a need to require the Allah word in any Bahasa versions of the Tripitaka, I Ching, Tao Te Ching (Dao De Jing), Analects of Confucius, Analects of Mencius, Doctrine of Mean, Classic of Rites and Classic of Poetry

    2. There is an exception to that - the Baba community in Malacca.
      Over many generations they had become so "Malayanised", I remember I had elderly relatives who did not speak a speak a single word of Chinese - only Malay.
      They were Taoists, and they clearly referred to the Jade Emperor or Tnee Kong as "Allah".

      Nowadays, most of the children from the Baba community attend Chinese school, and speak fluent Mandarin, so they have effectively "rejoined" the mainstream Chinese community. I suppose this issue won't arise with them in the future.

  19. 1. al-kitab.....arabic or malay? 2. there were communities of yahudi, nasrani & islam in medina during the time of prophet muhammad. was allah or yahweh or elohim used or referred in their daily conversation, communication and even in certain agreements? 3. hindu-buddha is one of the beliefs of the people of the malay archipelago before the arrival of islam. otherwise hindu-buddha wud be having the same problem faced by muslims in the region.

  20. PEACE...that is the very first greeting of Jesus Christ to anyone He meets.With this peaceful intention we Christians of the Catholic should rewrite the Bahasa bible with another name for GOD,there are many,instead allow willingly the Malaysian Malay Muslims have the all right usage of the Kalimah Allah.Let us ,we as Christians,give with love & willingly without expectations or favor.Yes it will take time,money & resources & efforts & manpower to do it,it can be done.Lets us the the end, goodwill & trust & harmony will prevail.

  21. 101% is making a fool of himself.
    Buddhists do speak to all sorts of Allahs.

    1. There is no Allah or omniscient creator god in Buddhism, except the variety followed by one bloke who claims he is a disciple of a Tibetan lama wakakaka.

    2. Once a so-called buddhist speak to 'all sorts of Allah', then he/she is no longer a buddhist. Buddhism is not a religion, just a way of life and Buddha himself asked not to be revered, but these ignorant fools will be ignorant fools, humans will make huge ugly statues of him and prostrate in front of such monstrosities to 'pray' (basically asking for all sorts of favours). Sooo pathetic and hypocritical.

      But there is no gainsaying these obdurate and thick-skulled fools, who will inevitabley insist they are right and will resort to all sorts of illogical and even obscene/crude remarks just to bring others down.

    3. My shallow understanding as follow:

      1. Buddhism is a religion base on general definition, just without god or gods. Many even deem atheism a religion.
      2. Statues serve the purpose to be reminiscent of Buddha and his teaching, nothing to do with revere.
      3. To pray is human nature, nothing pathetic about it.
      4. There are shen (god? allah?) in Chinese Buddhism, but not similar to the concept of creator, in fact Buddha totally against such notion. Chinese Buddhism treats gods in Taoism as some sort of guardian, which Taoist oppose, in return they treats Buddha as one of their gods.
      5. I agree Buddhism is a way of life, Muslim claim the same that Islam is Deen. There are many similarity among religion, for instance, what happen to Zen Buddhism by Huineng resemble to Martin Luther that initiate the protestant reformation, both break the monopolized of religion from domination of elite.
      6. When one accuse other for insulting Buddha, most probably he knows very little of Buddhism, just like one that claim aku cina doesn’t mean he know much about cina, he might know the black/white and Obama/Romney more.

    4. HY, correct in that statues were the equivalent of modern photos which we use to remember loved ones or respectable people (or people to be respected like HM Agong).

      A Buddhist "prayer" is just self-reiteration of the need to follow/implement Buddhist teachings such as not to kill, harm people, etc.

      The Chinese have this amazing ability to synthesize religions where in the average Chinese Malaysian household, the family would be following a combined religious path of Buddhist teachings/principles, Confucian ethics and Taoist 'live & let live' life-style

  22. It is truly inspiring to read a logical, unbiased, debate on the use of the word Allah by an Atheist. I never thought that this would ever happen.

  23. Are you aware that Alla means mother , mother goddess in (ancient) Sanskrit? One of the forms of mother goddess in Hinduism is Kali, also known as Alla.

    1. The misogynist islamist religionists will keel over and will prefer to commit seppuku if their allah is a female, wah ka ka ka.

  24. What malay bible. it is?was illegal to print bible in malay. Thst is why indo bible used. That is why allah used for generations. The issue arrived when the gov out of the blu. e refused to renew the publication of the catholic news because of the word allah which had been used by the community for generations. The reason why the locals so easy to influence is because all katak di bawah tempurung

  25. Great write up KT, enjoyed reading it. Obviously the word 'Allah' is not a Malay word. We used to refer God as Tuhan although the word 'Allah' appeared in the Quran close to a century and a half ago. It was only quite recently as 30 years ago that the word 'Allah' is prefered as to Tuhan. The fuss is about the word 'Allah' claimed as a Malay word, which as a matter of fact is indeed Arabic. Anyway religion is man made, nothing to do with God or 'Allah'. 'Allah' empowers His creations, whereas man only destroy. PEACE!

  26. There are three types of Buddhists.
    One follow the teachings of Lord Buddha only.
    The other are more towards Confucius teachings.
    The third kind is influenced by Hindus.
    I am talking about the third kind that has a lot of gods or allahs.
    All religions have branches.
    I am 102% right.

    1. the 3rd type is one followed by an old man who comes here to kacau with curses and obscenities wakakaka, but who claims to be taught by a Tibetan lama - he is as confused with his religion as he is with himself wakakaka

    2. KT, no need to make that fella your regular target, otherwise you are beginning to emulate that scorned woman.

    3. No one, and I seriously mean NO ONE could come close to emulating that scorned woman. Why is she humiliating and debasing herself wearing that big-hurt-turned-sooo-bitter on her sleeve ? Even if she wants to 'revenge' big time for whatever reason, at the very least do it with more class laa.

    4. Yea, she is a good example of "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned", taking her vindictiveness to greater depths. She is now just a pale shadow of whom was once known as a thorough and fair analyst of local politics.

  27. Hehehe...I've noticed that many Chinese, who may be nominally Taoists or Buddhist pray to all manner of Gods and Deities.
    Just as long as it may aid them with Business, 4-Digit etc.

    Virgin Mary, St. Anne, Lord Murugan, Brahma (commonly called, wrongly, the 4-faced Buddha), Sai Baba, Hare Krishna,
    ......all OK...

    Allah I haven't seen (yet), possibly because the T&Cs, requiring removal of the prepuce, abstaining from Pork and VSOP and Da Ma Cai, is too much even for Chinese...

    1. There are 10 times or more Chinese muslims in China than the whole of the Malay muslims in good olde come these millions of cina there tak takut potong and have no problem abstaining from babi and vsop....? Btw, if you haven't noticed, the malays are one group that contributes hugely to the Da Ma Cai here laa. So go figure....

    2. Most China Muslims are descendants of those whose territory were historically occupied by Muslim Arab and Turkic conquerors. In those days, you converted to the religion of the conquerors or you Die.

      A much smaller number are from converts residing in seaside port cities where Muslim missionaries were active. Historical evidence suggests Islam had very limited organic appeal in China (as opposed to conquest)

  28. One of the Fundamental tenets of Christianity is "Jesus is God".

    Just be careful, one of these days, in the Islamic Caliphate of Malaysia, you will no longer be allowed to say that, because it is offensive to the Muslim ear to hear it.

  29. The christians may not be confused if the Alkitab change the word to Tuhan, but do you know that there are thousands of word "Allah in the Alkitab" and it is a very tedious process to go through each pages and each one of them in order to change it. Who is going to do that and what if they miss out one word "Allah" in the Alkitab? What about the existing copies? Are they going to burn all of them. Also believers who already have the Alkitab with the word "Allah" in it. Are you asking them to throw it away and buy another one? Anyway, will Indonesia supplier be willing to do that. Why do the christians go to all these troubles just because someone do not like it? What about the Sikh scriptures? They also have the word "Allah" in it. Why didn't the muslims demand that they also change the word.

    Even if christians can do that, won't later they will ask for another word to be deleted like "prophet", etc. I heard at least 25 words are forbidden to be used.

  30. But the Muslims are right!
    Jesus did not say he is God at all!!
    Read the Bible carefully...and many Bibles have thrown out
    "Father, Son & Holy Ghost" not three but ONE.
    And today, it is which FAITH you cling to.

  31. Christians have changed Yaweh's name to Father, And then they made Jesus the son of the Father./God.!!! Not only that, by calling their Priest Father,they thus made their Priests a God too.!!!
    I am sure Yaweh is angry about that.!!!
    The same deception will happen when Christians change their God's name to Allah. Allah will then also be given the name Father. Then Jesus can be made the son. And by calling their Priest Father, the Priests get to be Allah too.!!! You think Allah would like this.???

    This is what Christian deception is about. They must have learned this deception trick from Hitler's Propoganda Minister,Joeseph Geobbles, who said,"A lie repeated many times, becomes a truth."
    They must have learned this deception trick from Satan too, because Satan is the Chief Deceiver.
    Refer Quran.31:33 "... nor let the Chief Deceiver (Satan) deceive you about Allah."
    Quran 35:5 "O men! certainly the promise of Allah is true, Let not then this present life deceive you, nor let the Chief Deceiver deceive you about Allah."

    Read more @

  32. I impress with your blog.I enjoy read it.One point is ,it deed cause confusion In christian they worship tripple god . As if ALLAH had son and wife.
    Their way to prostrate never same as muslim In Islam .ALLAH never born never gave birth. Which is why ALLAH name must remain in ARAB never in malay word even if it in malay word .The pronounciation differ with malay The bahasa. It must be in ARAB.Respectively. YES IT IS DIVINE NAME , Respectable name for ALLAH as one god never have any son or wife
    then it matter to avoid confusion between Muslim and christian.