... well at least until she went to stay at a school hostel where the the school warden made her embraced Islam without any prior knowledge of, let alone consent from her parents.
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| Free Malaysia Today |
Julius Yapoo had allowed his daughter to stay at the hostel because their home is 15 km from the school where the gravel road made travelling time even longer. To top that, there is no available public transport between his home and the daughter's school.
FMT reported Penampang MP Darell Leiking commented: “Once in the hostels, the schools bear full responsibility for looking after the children. The school concerned has not respected the sanctity of the family. They have not arranged a meeting between the parents and the child until today.”
Sadly, it has been a conversion of a minor by stealth.
The school teacher claimed the kid converted to Islam voluntarily. Yes, and I am the Emperor of Shambala.
Pray (excuse the unintended pun) tell me, what glory has this illegal conversion of a minor without her parents knowledge or consent brought for Islam, which is probably the world's greatest SOCIAL religion, one which promotes the compassionate social objective of zakat, the emphatic empathic* discipline of fasting and the supranational (non-racist) Ummah Wahida (which originally embraces all the people of the book)?
* a wee typo but one which changes the intended meaning of 'empathic' altogether into an irrelevant 'emphatic'
* a wee typo but one which changes the intended meaning of 'empathic' altogether into an irrelevant 'emphatic'
But today Islam stands in its greatest danger from some of its own followers, as we Malaysians only know too well.
Note: my respect for Islam is qualified from being automatically extended to its priesthood caste (wakakaka) nor to those of its so-called practitioners who kill, murder, steal, plunder, rape, lie, oppress, cheat (including politically) by the disrespectful misuse of the name of Islam.
My term for an illegal conversion of a minor by stealth is 'cradle snatching'.
This reminds me of another case in 1986 when a Malay school teacher supposedly eloped with his underage Chinese student, Susie Teoh. Her father discovered she was missing from home and learnt of her conversion to Islam.
From the Aliran Monthly 2004, we read:
Susie Teoh was 17 years and 8 months when she became Muslim. Her father Teoh Eng Huat, a Buddhist, could not locate her and he took the Jabatan Agama in Kelantan to court. He applied for a declaration that, as father and guardian to the infant, he had a right to decide her religion, education and upbringing and that her conversion to Islam was invalid. The case was covered by the Guardianship of Infants Act, 1961, a federal law of general application, Art. 11 (1) (freedom of religion), and Art. 12 (3), (4) (right to education) of the Federal Constitution.
The High Court ruled that the father's right to decide the religion and upbringing of the infant (under 18) is allowed "subject to the condition that it does not conflict with the principles of the infant's choice of religion guaranteed to her under the Federal Constitution." In other words, the infant has a right to choose her own religion if she does it on her own free will.
The High Court ruled that the father's right to decide the religion and upbringing of the infant (under 18) is allowed "subject to the condition that it does not conflict with the principles of the infant's choice of religion guaranteed to her under the Federal Constitution." In other words, the infant has a right to choose her own religion if she does it on her own free will.
With respect to the last line above, what a lot of crock as we will see shortly when we visit the judgement of the Supreme Court.
It's almost akin to saying having sex with a minor is statutory rape UNLESS the sexual act was consensual, or in the pseudo-immortal words of our Appeal Court in 2012, sex without force, cohesion or violence.
Yes, it had happened here in Boleh Land, that is, having sex minus force, cohesion or violence with an underage girl of 13 and then escaping imprisonment for statutory rape, for a lucky f* someone who was said to have a "bright future", but not for f* him who presumably hadn't been deemed to have a "bright future". Both are f* maggots!
What more, in the Susie Teoh case, the High Court's rule about "... subject to the condition that it does not conflict with the principles of the infant's choice of religion guaranteed to her under the Federal Constitution" was quite amazing considering the minor, Susie Teoh herself, was not even in court to testify if she had voluntarily become Muslim. So then how lah?
Continuing with the Aliran Report which saw the father taking the case to the Supreme Court:
The Supreme Court overruled the decision of the High Court and held that "in all the circumstances and in the wider interests of the nation no infant shall have the automatic right to receive instruction relating to any other religion other than (her) own without the permission of the parent or guardian".
The Supreme Court overruled the decision of the High Court and held that "in all the circumstances and in the wider interests of the nation no infant shall have the automatic right to receive instruction relating to any other religion other than (her) own without the permission of the parent or guardian".
Shouldn't this obvious point be f* clear in the first place? But wait, then didn't we have the bullshit about the bloke who was allowed to statutorily rape an underage 13-year old and escape unscathed because he has a "bright future" when even we laypeople know what the term statutory rape means?
Continuing with the Aliran Report - The Supreme Court, however, did not proceed with the declarations sought by Teoh Eng Huat as these were "only of academic interest" as Susie Teoh had reached the age of majority by the time the case was heard in the Supreme Court in 1990.
Thank you, High Court.
But a legal commentary said of the Supreme Court ruling, that the judgment remains fundamental in seeking a balance approach between a child’s right and parental authority and to provide basis for further argument should the same problem arise, in other words, forming a legal precedent ... which helps us understand the frustrated plight of Julius Yapoo and the illegal misappropriating of his rights as a parent in the insidious conversion of his daughter, a minor, by stealth.
Let me express my concerns of unscrupulous proselytizing of minors (not necessarily by religious authorities but by individuals acting on his/her own) by paraphrasing Pope Leo X's notorious statement "What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!" as follows:
"What profit has not that fable of parental authority over minors vis-à-vis the latter's illegal conversion brought us!"
Yesterday TMI reported that The teacher allegedly responsible for the conversion has been transferred to another school in Sabah and was not faulted for any wrongdoing after claiming that the student had wanted to embrace Islam voluntarily.
... was not faulted for any wrongdoing ...! Haven't we seen this f* bullshit before, time and time again?
I leave you with TMI's report that Kula Segaran, who is also the Ipoh Barat MP, said that in the case involving the Sabah schoolgirl, by nature of the fact that she was a non-Muslim and a minor before the alleged conversion took place, the Shariah court had no jurisdiction over her.
"Furthermore, no right-thinking Malaysian would buy the story that the girl went to school and converted willingly.
"The state education department should stop pretending as though this is not an issue, they should haul up and discipline the person who converted her."
Amin!
When you are convinced your faith is beautiful, sublime, and someone following another faith or having no faith at all is missing something wonderful, it is natural and logical that you want to introduce the faith to others.
ReplyDeleteThere is no compulsion , just sharing and explaining.
16 years is considered already past age of consent in Islam, so she was free to embrace the faith on her own free will.
I embraced the faith when I was 17, much to my parent's objections.
a Christian at 16 is NOT yet the age of consent - non-Muslims follow the civil laws, not syariah or Islamic laws - please be mindful of this FACT that at the time prior to the conversion the 16-year old has been a Christian, and thus would be considered as both illegal and cradle snatched by stealth in that conversion
DeleteYou cannot convert a non-Muslim minor, then claim as a "Muslim" she was already at her age of consent,because by the very act of converting it proves she has been a non-Muslim
'You cannot convert a non-Muslim minor'
Deleteif the parents consented to the conversion, tak boleh ka?
wrt the topic in question, shouldn't rule of thump be applied in the situation. can we begin quantity counting with a '2' instead of '1'?. first thing first, i.e. the supreme law of the land must be observed and when the required provisions had been fulfilled, then only can we talk about 2 i.e. syariah court.
with parental consent, then ta'ad cerita lagi, so what's your point?
Deletetypo in ta'ad, should be ta'ada
DeleteThere is still the other mess where 1 parent converts Islam , then converts the child to Islam stealthily as a backdoor means of getting custody.
DeleteThe Syariah Court, of course, rules that the now Muslim child Must stay with the now Muslim parent.
Automatic Divorce, Automatic Custody. Closed case.
The Appeals Court full of "I am a Muslim first" judges rules in favour of Syariah Court.
Now awaiting Federal Court appeal .....is the Federal Court also full of "I am a Muslim first" judges or Carma - Cari Makan judges ?
kt 6.26 pm,
Deleteyour statement is akin to saying 'traffic offenders shall be sent to jail' full stop.
i will then ask 'bayar saman pun kena masuk jel ke? half truth. that's my point.
the context of this post is about conversion of minors WITHOUT parental consent or even knowledge, hence that's the underlying issue. Kalau with parental consent that's out of context
Deletei knew you were going to say that. my question was specifically related to your reply to kathy's comments. in that context so to speak. well, it doesn't matter at all since we are at the same frequency. no ping pong.
DeleteThere is no love lost between Christianity and Islam.
ReplyDeleteAmong campaigners, there is particular distinction with succeeding in freely converting a Christian to Islam (as opposed to marriage related conversions).
I suspect there is similar honour for Christian preachers to convert a Muslim, though that is illegal in Malaysia (but not in Indonesia, one of the world's fastest growing Christian convert population)
too right Kristang. 'Tis the nature of the beast in evangelistic religions
DeleteIf only the world be rid of these 2 religions.....a lot, a lot of woes can be evaded !
Deletei know very little only how the spaniards converted the huannas of philippines, but i know very well how islam was spread by 'wali 9' thru the nusantara. so, who's the beast? anyway, there are bound to be a lot of 'the beasts' in many beliefs becos they love power and wealth.
Deletekampong lad, the phrase "'Tis the nature of the beast" does NOT refer to a binatang, wakakaka - it's a English figure of speech which means "that's their nature" ;-)
Deleteyou misunderstood me this time. i said spaniards converted & wali 9 spread. this is becos my prophet's main duty was to convey the good news (message) and it was up to the recipients to believe or disbelieve him as there's no compulsion in religion. when i said 'a lot of the beasts in many beliefs', yes, i meant binatang.
Deleteyou're a bit naive to believe that there was (perhaps still 'is') no compulsion in religion - take a look at the history of Spanish conquest of Mexico and South America and the Catholic Church's evil proselytization there and also look at the Islamic forces sweep into Europe including Spain and northern Africa
DeleteToday's priesthood caste and their lay-supporters aren't like your Prophet so please be realistic and don't presumptuously endow them with the qualities of the Prophet
When Muslim armies conquered non-Muslim territories by war, the treatment of non-Muslim populations was usually barbaric and brutal. Non-believers, those not of Abrahamic religions usually had 2 or 3 choices - convert or be killed or be sold into slavery. The more attractive younger women often became sexual slaves for the invader's armies.
DeleteChristians and Jews were often spared, but they were subject to other forms of non-violent coercion. They had no right to practice their religion in public, subjected to severe taxation, barred from many kinds of trade and employment, and had limited access to the legal system. Not surprisingly , over time, most Christian subjects of Muslim rulers converted. Most of the Jews left.
South East Asia is fortunate that Islam spread by a combination of trade and conversion of local Kings and Princes. In the old days of absolute monarchy, if the King converted his religion, inevitably most subjects would follow. There were plenty of coercive forces in place, but since the King was a local man, the was little of the brutal violence that usually came with conquest by foreign Muslim armies.
The exception was in East Java and Bali. The Muslim armies attempted conquest of the remaining Hindu kingdoms by force. The Kings of Bali resisted strongly - the entire population rose to fight. That is why Bali has remained Hindu, and there are still Hindus in East Java.
Plus the atheist commies murdered millions of people, namely China, Russia and even Cambodia.
DeleteThe notion of all are sinners including yourself seems not clearly understood
Not as cibai arrogant bastard like you never accept.......hehehehe
Where is the Dog called CL Flamiris
In Latin, Dog = Canis Lupus Flamiaris
looes and his church interfered with politics in Fiji, disregarding Jesus advice in Matthew 12:17 to "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's" - cibal looes should be beheaded or drowned in village pond for blasphemic apostasy, wakakaka
DeleteKaytee,
DeleteWhat about John 3 : 16? Or you are like the rich man
There is always something you lack
You know which part of Matthew?
Some native Fijian politicians have for years wanted to disenfranchise the ethnic Indian population. Perkasa style racial supremacy. 10x uglier than UMNO in Malaysia.
DeleteThe ethnic Indians are almost all Hindu. One way to stir up hostility is to emphasise religious differences, as well as push for establishing a "Christian nation" where non-Christians do are denied many rights.
Unfortunately some of the local Fijian Methodist Church hierarchy has been complicit in this.
The global Methodist Church in no way condones this, in fact the Church has gone on record to condemn racial and religious discrimination in Fiji.
By the way, the Methodist Church resisted apartheid in South Africa, and remained integrated throughout the apartheid period, defying the authorities. Nelson Mandela was a Methodist.
kt 8:14 am,
Delete'there's no compulsion in religion' is the quranic verse which was/is valid from the prophet's time up to today and until end of time. let me say a little bit more if you don't mind.
the prophet s.a.w. was commanded the deliver the message and in return for it he never demanded any reward or payment for himself from the believers. his job was to deliver thus he was titled rasul which means messenger. the reward comes from his master. that's it.
you can lead a horse to the water, but you can't make it to drink.
now, the conquest of spain and northern africa by muslims. (i wouldn't want to say the believers). pls take note that those were the survivors of bani umayah (conquerors of spain) who escaped from massacre conducted by bani abbas. as for northern africa, those were the splinter group of bani hasyim. fyi, these three 'children' shared the same ancestry in the name of abdul manaf. this reminded me of the bani israel. was it a co-incidence or predestined.
'please be realistic and don't presumptuously endow them with the qualities of the Prophet'
ok, this is my position. muslims have been proudly (arrogantly?) claiming that they are strictly adhering to 'the message' (alquran) as well as to the deeds and sayings of their beloved prophet. so my question is - since the prophet s.a.w. fulfilled the command without asking for any rewards and did not force the people to believe, then why are they not following his deeds, instead what they had been doing is just the opposite. i can't say much more.
Your sweetie the muppet also highlighted a case involving a 7-year old kid in your home state Penang, in different circumstances, but with connivance of the authorities...
ReplyDeleteHowever, in her usual glib and deftly manner she managed to put some blame on the Chief Minister for doing nothing, see:
https://helenang.wordpress.com/2011/08/20/butir-butir-kes-murtad-di-pulau-pinang/
some non-Muslim Malaysian parents have been misusing conversion to Islam as a pretext to seize custody of children when relationship became ugly between the married couple
Deleteit's a legal issue between the couple where either the civil courts or syariah courts deal with the custody issues. The CM or MB has no say at all in such legal issues
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Hertogh_riots
ReplyDeleteIts 1950 again.......during the chaos of WWII, almost all Europeans and their dependants were interned in concentration camps.
Maria Hertogh was left in the care of her grandmother's Malay/Muslim friends. After the War, her parents searched for her, but she was "missing". Unknown to them Maria had been converted to Islam, taking the name Nadrah.
Maria was finally traced and found in 1950, then 13-years old. The Malay family refused to give her up.
The High Court in Singapore ruled that Maria had only been left in the care of the Malay family due to extreme wartime circumstances, not given up for adoption, and ordered her returned to her natural parents. The child, who had almost forgotten her natural parents, refused to go.
There followed months of legal maneuverings. Maria was married to Malay man , at age 13 through a Muslim wedding.
The Singapore court finally ruled in favour of her parents.
As a minor she could not be considered to have converted to Islam, without her parents consent.
As a minor, she could not be considered to be legally married , without her parents consent.
The Supreme Court in Singapore upheld the verdict, and her parents prepared to take her away to Holland.
The verdict was followed by days of riots by the Malay community in Singapore. 18 people died.
Back to 2015...This issue needs to be handled with sensitivity, not political grandstanding. If the girl is adamant that she wishes to be a Muslim, and has already gone through the formal conversion process, its going to be very tough to legally insist she "is" a Christian or return to being a Christian.
I don't see why Ipoh Barat needs Bising so much.
you cannot compare the Maria Hertogh case with the current Sabahan sweetie - they're light years apart in differences. Incidentally I have also blogged on the Maria Hertogh case and the warning it holds for Malaysia but not in the same vein as you suggested. The riots then was caused by Muslims seeing Maria praying before the Virgin Mary (after her return to her legal Dutch parents) and NOT because she was returned to her biological parents. The leader of the riot was an Indian Muslim who was caught and sentenced to death, but subsequently had his death sentence commuted following compassionate intervention by Tunku Abdul Rahman.
DeleteMaria Hertogh was virtually brought up for years by a Muslim in a Muslim environment without any contact with her biological parents nor in a Christian/Western environment, where we can see why she grew up as virtually and inevitably as a Malay. Hence it was not surprising she became a Muslim, but by sheer assimilation over the years and not just mere conversion - you can read this intelligently rather than technically.
The Sabahan sweetie has been a Christian for 16 years but in a relatively brief moment of being away from her parents' eyes and under the supervision and influence of the school people, she was converted illegally (as a minor), and sneakily because her parents weren't consulted nor had given their consent.
The former was a case of conversion by circumstances which I sympathize with, while the latter was shameful cradle snatching which has offended the good name of a great religion, Islam.
Whether she wants to remain a Muslim is not relevant as she is STILL a minor, and cannot assert that right. Let us recapitulate the Supreme Court's ruling in 1990 re the Susie Teoh's which held that "in all the circumstances and in the wider interests of the nation no infant shall have the automatic right to receive instruction relating to any other religion other than (her) own without the permission of the parent or guardian".
As I have written above, today Islam stands in its greatest danger from some of its own followers.
'the good name of a great religion, Islam'.
Deleteare you a believer?
no, but I admire aspects of Islam particularly zakat and fasting, both being disciplines to be mindful of and help the needy. There are many objectives in Islamic fasting but the one I am interested in and admire is that to be mindful of the needy, to feel their hunger or even starvation (ie. what I meant by the word "EMPATHIC" and not 'emphatic' as I had originally and incorrectly typed in).
DeleteAs a non-Muslim I don't like to comment on the feasting at night during the month of Ramadan (have been invited to a few), but I have nonetheless often wonder whether that would be in the spirit of what the Quran wants?
The two above have been why I deem Islam as the greatest SOCIAL-WELFARE religion, but alas, I frown on the practices, morality and mentality of some Muslims who are bringing disrepute to and even hatred for Islam
Ktemoc, you cannot pick and choose just the aspects of Islam that you find positive. It is a package deal.
DeleteMany of the unattractive , even downright nasty aspects of Islam are not an aberration arising from misguided Muslims. They ARE Islam.
Islam is a way of life. It demands full submission from its followers.
The social welfare, the empathy of fasting, comes together with the subordinate status of women, the hostility towards non-believers, the severe punishments for moral infractions , the medieval-style Hudud. They are all prescribed in the Koran and Hadith.
Don't try to cherry-pick only the "good" bits. That is not Islam.
I have lived in Australia for 15 years. I left Islam for precisely those reasons.
where is it that says I pick or cherry pick aspects Islam - I only stated that I admire some aspects of Islam but which in itself does not mean I have embrace Islam, wakakaka. Mate, I'm an atheist lah but that doesn't mean I can't admire aspects in some religions, even Christianity, Islam and Hinduism, etc - wakakaka
DeleteHave you forgotten that other religion also have such schemes? Including christianity and Judaism. The tithe is 10%. Hindus, christians, jews and even buddhists fast. Buddhist monks don't eat after 12noon.
DeleteNot sure why you value Islam so great. Mau potong kah? Sikarang afraid of violating first tenet of rukun negara
Scare oredi hah?
Lim Yew Hock who FIRST ordered the mass suppression of singapore left wings..........Not just LKY hor............become muslim
He also has his flings in aussie........I really wonder........hahahaha
"IS is not about Islam." Obama knows best. -huaren
DeleteBarack Hussein Obama is a not-so-closet Muslim.
DeleteI wonder what would kaytee going to say about this
Deletehttp://www.malaysiakini.com/news/290838
Ever find anything admirable about Judaism ? .....wakakakakaka...
Deletekt 8:26 am,
Deletefasting - allow me to quote here two quranic verses concerning fasting:
1) O ye who believe! Fasting is prescribed for you, even as it was prescribed for those before you, that ye may ward off (evil);
2) (Fast) a certain number of days; and (for) him who is sick among you, or on a journey, (the same) number of other days; and for those who can afford it there is a ransom: the feeding of a man in need - but whoso doeth good of his own accord, it is better for him: and that ye fast is better for you if ye did but know -
you will see that fasting is mandatory for the believers as per 1) above and the exceptions are given to certain categories as per 2) above. so, zakat will take care of the needy who still got to fast. no excuse.
breaking of fast (you say feasting) - i have only one comment i.e. allah does not love transgressors.
happy & enjoy the oncoming chap goh meh. cheers to ah hneah & to all the
participants.
I hope they continue with this attitude right through the coming GE.
ReplyDelete"The state education department should stop pretending as though this is not an issue, they should haul up and discipline the person who converted her."
ReplyDeleteNot in a million years !
-huaren
If only these 2 abrahamic religions cancel out each other and disappear from this world, then most of the world's woes would be reduced by hefty 80% !
ReplyDeleteAnon 5.01
DeleteAtheists could make it 100 % !
-huaren
Huaren,
DeleteI am not sure about atheist can save the world when Khmer Rough (fucking bunch of atheists) decimated 1/6 of cambodian population.
Kinda sick of kaytee bs. He is not a human after all
not as many as South American Indians and Mexican Aztecs were murdered by the Christian Church
DeleteDon't confuse the Conquistadors with the Church.
Deletelooes 9.31
DeleteThey killed in the name of atheism ?
-huaren
And what about Stalin, Mao? Or even Atilla the hun? You can never win one la........ Cibai
DeleteGuys and Gals,
It has nothing to do with religion. It has something to do with people like kaytee. Kaytee is a sadistic hedonistic pig. His artciles already demonstrates he is such a cibai person.
A so called compassionate humanist would not in screwing people especially when they are incarcerated.
"cradle snatching"
ReplyDeleteThe dead, spared ?
-huaren
separate topic, which I suspect has to do with inheritance rather than pious recovery. If, say, a brother of a deceased Muslim reports to the religious agency that the deceased was a Muslim, and the widow a non-Muslim, the Muslim bro gets the inheritance
Deleteyes, read somewhere that happended in egypt if not mistaken.
Deletehere in Malaysia too, wakakaka
DeleteWANTED: DEAD OR ALIVE. -huaren
DeleteHotel California -- u can get in easily BUT u can NEVER get out!
DeleteNo compulsion in getting in BUT definitely till death would not let u go!
Religion of compassion??????
you can say that again & again but i can't unfortunately, for i don't want to receive uninvited guests. i can't afford to entertain them.
Deletekampong lad,
DeleteSo in this Sabah case, is that girl invited or not? Conned? Tempted?
Or were ALL other what's not?
The unfortunate thingy about M'sian ummat Islam is that there r obviously many zealots who would like to sapu ALL - invited, uninvited or whatsoever!
Who r u, BUT just an Islamist, binded by a set of unbinding religious man-written tenants!
U r just part of the herd, even though yr inside thinking could be a variant that u have to remain unspoken among the herd!
anon 5.46 pm,
Delete'So in this Sabah case, is that girl invited or not? Conned? Tempted?'
what a question man!.
'Who r u, BUT just an Islamist, binded by a set of unbinding religious man-written tenants'
what is an islamist? if i am binded by such law, do you have problems with that? thank you for your concern anyway, if you are.
'U r just part of the herd, even though yr inside thinking could be a variant that u have to remain unspoken among the herd!'
is that a problem to you too? it's my prerogative and my decision. now, tell me what do you want me to do if that will make you happy. you missed the target man.
Frabkly, there is nothing wrong about proselytising or evangelising. Fuck la, even that cibai pig called ktemoc is evangelising his fucking cibai ideals in this blog. Worst still he is dictating as well.........As if he is the cibai caligula.........jester...........hahahaha
DeleteThe problem is using state funding to do proselytisation.
Frankly, I wonder what the cibai happened to ktemoc. Bad memories in catholic school, right? That missy whack buttock too hard
kampong lad,
DeleteFor someone who 'proclaimed' to be a 'liberalized' (if such word applied to u) in Islamic faith, u indeed shot wide & open!
As a lone Islamist, that's yr own private affair. But as a herd, u form part of the melee that not only threaten the peace of humanity BUT also yr faith's identity. Yes???
So, read carefully....... u r not my problem. Yr herd mentality is!
Cowards follow unbending rules dictate by their leaders. This is especially so in faith matters that spread by the spurious 'messiahs'. U might be able to think, but yr stomach to stand up to herd challenges is weak.
Same like those blur German followers of Nazism!
Or perhaps I misjudged that there is runner outside the blur-sotong of setempurung. No???
Comprehendi????
anon 1014 am,
Deletewhen i said 'i', i was referring to your 'U r just part of the herd' claim and i knew it was not addressed to me personally.(the herd mentality is your problem but it is not my concern). let's have our wavelength aligned first.
'U might be able to think, but yr stomach to stand up to herd challenges is weak'
that's your view and assessment which you are entitled to. i have no problem with that.
let's forget about history, (whatever happened before are undoubtedly useful lessons & guides for us - whether to repeat or avoid either in a positive or negative way), and embrace geography.
briefly, religions have been 'converted' to a dangerous weapon by the wielders of power, be it in the system of democracy, autocracy or what have you. today, the people, the way of life, the environment, the enablers, etc have changed and will continue to change but the weapon will stay. i am looking at the macro level, that's what i meant by 'you missed the target'.
cheers man!
kampong lad,
Delete1st recheck that cartoon - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7PH3CVCMAASTS2.jpg:large
What does it implies?
Forget about the history?
Might as well goes back to the cave & lives like a Neanderthal, waiting for the final day!
At the macro level, WHY we allow religion to be used as a dangerous weapon?
Blur-sotong always exists & can never change, thus the circular repetition!
Simply bcoz there r blur-sotongs out there & the saddest part is their numerical superiority. Thus, the herd mentality gains that prerequisite momentum to congregate & form a formidable destructive force, even though the congregation MIGHT not be coherent! Hence, herd mentality is not ONLY my problem, but yr silent contribution!
Been a congregated member of the herd & not willing to go against the conventional rules, u too become the problem as the top manipulators need these silent/dormant to claim their quantitative right! Without these silent/dormant members, the numerical superiority, as claimed, is just not there. Thus the weak stomach.
Hope u see the form of that wavelength!
so fierce wor!. go and tell that to netanyahu & obama.
DeleteBodoh Sombong juga.
DeleteNetanyahu & Obama r not my concerns. M'sia is!
your concern is to rampas putrajaya and not malaysia. in politics, there are no permanent friends or foes, only permanent interest. pak syeikh was despised by some quarters when he was in umno, but for the past several years until today, he is recognized to be the one and only path to putrajaya, with his consent of course.
Deleteearlier you said ' u r not my problem. Yr herd mentality is' and later you added ' herd mentality is not ONLY my problem, but yr silent contribution'
apa ni, cannot decide ka? it doesn't matter anyway. ok then, so let both my herd mentality & silent contribution continue to be your problem for i don't care two hoots about that.
when a person who is participating in a debate or a discussion resorts to name-calling, is already a proof that his argument is lost. thus it is not my culture to go down to that level to continue the matter. clearly we are at different wavelength.
maybe the chow kit road area where i think your product could be sold very well. and don't forget the bullshit (petaling) street too.
with that, i rest my case.
kt, last nite (chap goh mei), i wrote on a buah limau 'to maharani mansuur, for your own good, abdicate your throne' and threw it in the sungai air itam, so, ok or not?
I think this case is complicated by issues of family conflict and teenage rebellion.
ReplyDeleteThe girl just doesn't get along with her parents, especially her father, and refuses to see them for reasons unrelated to her "conversion".
She explained to the school authorities she is frightened of her father, and does not want to go home.
Apart from investigating a possible wrongful conversion, there may be a need for authorities to investigate any issues of family abuse or violence as well.
Both the parents and the child may need to attend counselling, else there will be another problem with a runaway teenager soon.
if that is the case, the conversion doesn't eliminate the family conflict, instead more problems surface.
DeleteA girl with a family problem, bad relationship with her parents....and the proselytizers took advantage of her emotional and physical vulnerability to induce her conversion.
DeleteIf that is the case, it makes the conversion attempt even more hypocritical.
What was the teacher thinking when he took advantage of the girl's state of mind, and proceeded to convert her? Doesn't he realised that he is driving deeper the wedge between her and the parents?
DeleteIs it that the brief moment of glory of acquiring a new adherent to his faith numbs him to the consequences that will ensue. It seems that the proselytisation business has become a "us-vs-them" war, so winning someone over to one's side is paramount, and all the trouble that follows be damned!
If no state sanction, no state funding.......ok
DeleteCibai atheists especially in commies such as soviet union and PRC extremely good in brainwashing
Heard how North Koreans kenna brainwashed.......All of them must be christians.......so say that cibai kaytee
The school officials should know Malaysia's law as it stands. A minor cannot receive religious instruction in any religion other than her own, except with the permission of the parents.
ReplyDeleteHowever, Nowadays, most officials in the near-mono-ethnic Malaysian government service are "Muslims first". That is, they consider that their actions and decisions are guided by Islam and by being a Muslim. Since Islam considers the 16-year old as old enough to be converted, they see no wrong in the act.
Stuff the law. There will be no real action taken against the teacher or other school officers involved in the conversion of the minor.
You can blame Anwar Ibrahim for laying the foundation of this "Islamisation" of the Malaysian government. But it is futile just to blame Anwar. Many others have continued the work, and made no attempt to roll it back. The Islamisation continues to this day.
Anyway, Anwar is in jail now, its time to get on with holding others who are currently in power accountable.
This is what Sabah gets for being a Fixed Deposit for the last 52 years.
ReplyDeleteDoormats get stepped on right ?
Sabah gets the short end of the deal for many, many things., many, many issues.
I can't pity them because they insist to keep voting in BN/UMNO, year in, year out.
Here's a theoretical scenario.....maybe not that theoretical...
ReplyDeleteSometime in the future....
Robert Kuok, the richest Malaysian citizen dies, leaving behind a US $ 11 Billion fortune. In his will, he leaves the bulk of his fortune to his children , all named.
During the traditional Chinese funeral rites, a stranger appears, claiming to be Robert Kuok's son, by a Malay woman. He produces documents and certificates claiming to show Kuok converted to Islam and married the Malay woman years ago, giving birth to him.
JAWI authorities examine the documents and pronounce them to be in genuine. Robert Kuok is a Muslim.
A small army of Islamic officials turn up at the funeral and take his body away for Muslim burial.
As a Muslim, Robert Kuok's civil law Will is Null and Void. As a Muslim, his estate cannot be inherited by non-Muslims. Needy Blood relatives can apply for humanitarian sustenance from the estate, but since all his legal children are wealthy in their own right, they have no grounds for such assistance.
The Syariah Court affirms the above, per Muslim family law. Only a Muslim spouse and Muslim children can inherit his property.
The previously unknown Muslim son and Malay spouse now inherit a US $ 11 Billion business empire at the stroke of a pen.....
see
ReplyDeletehttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7PH3CVCMAASTS2.jpg:large
PEACE ?
DeleteCAKAP TAK SERUPA BIKIN.
-HUAREN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPI3nh-BdKg
ReplyDelete- hasan
The hand the snatches the cradle rocks the world......
ReplyDeleteor perhaps thinks they will rule the world ?
a new twist....wakakakakka
Every lost soul that is saved brings glory to Allah / God (pick your choice)
ReplyDeleteWhat about that cibai called ktemoc?
DeleteI'll be slaughtering your cibai soul for what cibai you did in Fiji, you cibal insidious soul cannot be saved until cibai you burn 7 times in Hell, you CIBAI
DeleteIt is very evident now that the relationship between our blogger here and that lost74 is way past the path of no return. Hey loser 74....best you get lost lah with all your cibai-ness....it is such a pain now to read your nonsense, unlike those time in the beginning you are still bearable and sometimes even quite enlightening..now it is all so full of CB....if you still have some honour left (if that's possbibe !), leave quietly to save most of all here the pain...sakit mata baca you punya pundek writing.
DeleteWhy me getting lost? Not you! Don't even dare to declare your name. Must be a pondan! Right! Do you know that Patrick Teoh is fucking more vulgar than I am? I consider him as my sifu
DeleteJust because P Teoh swears like a sailor, and you copied him, does not make you into someone who writes sense like Mr Teoh lah ! Did Patrick Teoh writes nonsense and keeps on provoking senselessly ?
DeleteAnd see yourself here....just coz I use an Anon 'nick', then I MUST be a pondan ? Huh ?? great logic and reasoning, right ? That's why you are a lost and not even a shadow of your sifu ! hehehe. And btw....if the owner of this blog allows Anonymous nick, why you so sibuk sibuk sangat marah ? What has 'daring' to declare name has to do with this ? If you are so berani, please post your ID card here lah...photos, house address, telephone number.....remember to post an enlarged clear pic of your handsomeness OK ? Berani tak ?
Oh...another thing....how come you not daring to use CB words on other sites and also refrain from your trademark here of endlessly cucuk cucuk like a spiteful drunkard ? Why this Jekyll and Hyde split personality ? Ah....berani to take advantage of some blogger who are liberal and generous, right ? But turned cowardly at other sites whose owners that would not give you an inch the moment you hurled CB words and spew toxic, senseless attacks ! Pordah !!!
Deletemy personal experience....
ReplyDeleteDue to my work situation , I lived in a rural area during all the years my children were of school age. The choice was between attending an indifferent rural school and the town school 30 km away.
I was very happy when my daughter, a top student from her school was offered a place at a highly regarded fully-residential Sekolah Menengah Sains. I knew the school was 9x % Malay/ Muslim, but it didn't worry me. We are Buddhists , but had lived among Malays all our lives, and it had never been a problem. Just learn to respect each other's religious beliefs.
I was horrified during her 3rd year there when I heard her taking to softly reciting words which I realised were Islamic verses. In spite of the additional complications involved, I took her out of the school, and begged relatives in Penang to take her in until she finished her secondary school.
So...I can attest that this is not a totally isolated case...it can happen when a non-Muslim child is placed in an almost totally Muslim environment.
Sorry to say, some Muslims are so adamant to protect their laws against any other religion proselytizing to Muslims, fair enough, but themselves do not respect the law of the land which is that you May NOT proselytize to a minor without their parents consent.
These people do not understand the word 'honour' or 'integrity'.....or rather, they believe it is perfectly OK to 'do unto others' those things which they do not want others to do unto them, simply because 'the others' are the kaffir, the unbelievers, so it is OK to lure the kaffirs' children away, to steal from the kaffirs, to deceive the kaffirs, to bully the kaffirs, to be unjust to the kaffirs, and even to kill the kaffirs.....all these they can freely "do" the kaffirs and their god will still allow them to go to heaven and get their 72 virgins, wakakaka.
Deletekampong lad,
DeleteHa… the famous quote of hotel California vis-a-vis Islam’s selective freedom of choice!
Whatsoever u’ve said, the clear contradictions CANNOT be avoided.
Read these;
And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." - Quran 18:29
If you do good, you do good for yourselves; and if you do evil, [you do it] to yourselves. - Quran 17:7
There has come to you enlightenment from your Lord. So whoever will see does so for [the benefit of] his soul, and whoever is blind [does harm] against it. And [say], "I am not a guardian over you." - Quran 6:104
These r the words of Quran as indicated for the freedom of choice despite the claimed death to apostasy!
So, indeed I’m NOT alone to have this kind of perception iff we ALL read & think!!!!
Anon,
DeleteLeave it as it's. One thing very sure. All are sinners before God. That is why it's said.........
Grace through faith in christ. Not works so that no one especially that cibai kaytee can boast.
Simple fact! Kaytee has murdered, butchered and screwed Anwar through his wrtitings.......Agree?
Anonymous8:58 am, March 06, 2015,
Deleteall the verses quoted don't contradict each other. yes, they are many other verses that talk about freedom of choice as far as belief is concerned. trust we are on the same page. but i still cannot find even one verse that proclaims death penalty for apostasy. thus, i would not want say that the punishment contradicts the quran, becos in it there is no such command prescribed. nothing at all.
wakakaka, for cibai looes who loves cibai-ing to talk about "Grace through faith in christ" has to be the biggest joke of all, wakakaka again
Deletethe REAL simple fact! cibai looes has murdered, butchered and screwed Christ through his cibai writings. wakakaka
Anonymous11:13 am, March 04, 2015,
ReplyDeletehotel california ah? ya, i like the song very much. if you understand that part of the lyrics are equivalent to 'the way of life' (religion) of 'submission to the god' (islam), see the following:
'Surely, those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe, then disbelieve, then plunge deeper into disbelief, GOD will not forgive them, nor will He guide them in any way'.
the above does not contradict the 'there's no compulsion in religion' verse quoted in the earlier entry. problems surface when the people tend to be forgetful and eager to contradict among themselves due to power and wealth. the god is never forgetful, never short of words & never contradicts his statements.
well, you are not alone to have this kind of perception.
Christianity and Islam have been continuously at war since the Battle of Yarmuk in 636 AD between the Christian Byzantine army and the Muslim Arab Army.
ReplyDeleteIt was a massive defeat for the Byzantines, and Christianity was in continuous retreat for 900 years until the 1529 siege of Vienna.
It was the riches of the New World, plundered by the European empires, which gave them the wealth and resources to turn the tide against Islam.
In the last 500 years, the West has steadily gained ascendancy, until today. Many Muslim governments have been reduced to mere client states of one Western power or another.
Unmanned American drones raining bombs from the sky , with the acquiescence of Muslim governments is a deep affront to many Muslims.
Not surprising that at a local level, "snatching" a soul from the "other side" is considered quite an honour.
There was a time when it was actually possible to have someone quietly or maliciously have you registered as having converted to Islam.
ReplyDeleteThere were complaints by the person themselves that they had not done such a thing, or grieving families challenging the "Body Snatcher" teams for concrete evidence of conversion.
Now most Islamic authorities require physical proof in person of declaration, signature, witnesses etc. before accepting the person has having converted.
Erawan 4.54
ReplyDeleteFully agree with you.
One more thing. When children begin to refuse to take pork, something 'wrong' must have taken place. (This happened to a friend's son). Parents beware!
-huaren
I thought kaytee says muslims should not go against pork. Whoops! Sorry, kaytee is a chavinist pig
Deletelooes is on a insidious mission to convert everyone into Methodists so they can partake of the barbequed pork from a Fijian kalua. I'm prepared to embrace the Methodist Church if looes volunteers to be the kalua pig, wakakaka. I'll enjoy slicing him up and marinating him in sambal belacan and kava before cooking him up, wakakaka again
DeleteBULA wakakaka
Delete