(1) “What do you want me to do for you?” Jesus asked him. The blind man said, “Rabbi, I want to see.” - Mark 10:51 (NIV)
(2) His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” - John 9:2 (NIV)
Question: During the time of the Roman occupation of Judea, would it be possible for a rabbi not to be married?
Ask a Jew (descendant of the Judeans) and he'd tell you: "NO, it was NOT possible. And it's still NOT possible today. Rabbis had and have wives."
Ask a Christian and he might possibly tell you: "YES, a rabbi need not be married."
Ask a 2nd Christian and he might possibly say: "The meaning of 'rabbi' mentioned in the (New Testament) bible would have been different from the meaning for the rabbis of Judaism" suggesting Yehoshua ben Yosef (Jesus) was not a Judean subscribing to the religion of Judaism.
The 2nd Christian might even go into lengthy and sophisticated (and sometimes agonizing) explanations on why the biblical (New Testament) rabbi would be different from the Judaic rabbi ...
... in the same he/she might possibly explain why Ruth was not a Moabite, described by Jews and Christians as the bastard race ...
[Ruth was a Moabite who became the ancestress of King David, and thus also the ancestress of you-know-who]
... in the same way he/she is unlikely to accept that Judas Iscariot was the closest disciple of his master, as the recipient of secret revelations from his master because he alone of all the disciples understood his master's message of salvation, and the one who was instrumental in fulfilling his master's divine mission, and therefore to be honored (rather than condemned) for executing his part of the divine plan ...
... in the same way he/she is unlikely to accept the deliberately marginalized Gospels of Thomas, Mary and Judas ...
... or the Gospel of Jesus' Wife (see below):
The English translation of the fragmentary lines above is, for the recto (front page):
line 1: ... not [to] me. My mother gave me life ...
line 2: ... The disciples said to Jesus, ...
line 3: ... deny. Mary is (not?) worthy of it. ...
line 4: ... Jesus said to them, "My wife ...
line 5: ... she is able to be my disciple ...
line 6: ... Let wicked people swell up ...
line 7: ... As for me, I am with her in order to ...
line 8: ... an image ...
'Different gospels, different Stories'
ReplyDeletePerhaps, they are apocryphal gospels made by apostles who borrowed the name of Jesus for some specific religious purposes?
Not much in the Quran about Jesus though. But the Quran did say in general that all prophets married, and most practiced polygamy. Some books on religion even mentioned that Jesus got four wives?
Nevertheless, the writing of Dr. Barbara Thiering is quite doubtful and contradicting too.
From my own readings, I am of the opinion that Jesus did marry, and had at least two wives?
- hasan
mainstream churches marginalized gospels that were/are unacceptable to their ideology/doctrines/belief by terming them apocryphal, a term devised to keep different takes on the Abrahamic religious heritage on the outer
Deletere your "apostles who borrowed the name of Jesus for some specific religious purposes" tell me which apostle did not "borrow" the name of Jesus for their own teachings.purposes? Mark? Luke? Matthew? John?
@ hasan
DeleteQuite interesting observations. Hope you can share more.
Din
Share more........
DeleteTell me why KT Mok is not related to Lim yew hock??????
Why an atheist unlike Rene decartes espousing his ideals instead ridicuing others?
Why he is complaining that his dick is 1/2 inches shorter?
Why this cibai KT MOK never run a parallel about king ahab and his wife called Jezebel?
Rosmah cibai Mansoh would have multiple orgasm when she asked Elijah the prophet to fuck off.....else..........hahahaha
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Kings+19&version=NIV
Now Ahab (Najib) told Jezebel (Rosmah) everything Elijah had done and how he had killed all the prophets with the sword. 2 So Jezebel (Rosmah) sent a messenger to Elijah to say, “May the gods deal with me, be it ever so severely, if by this time tomorrow I do not make your life like that of one of them.”
And what did Elijah did............HAHAHA
Elijah was afraid[a] and ran for his life.
use your brains folks.......why kaytee so afraid in confronting the UMNO and the so called melayus..........
OMG, This should be CL Flamiiaris job...........fuck la......he got no balls....hehehehe
Yr half anmoh sifu wrote this piece of trash;
ReplyDeletehttp://www.malaysia-today.net/reject-the-quran-says-koon-yew-yin/
twisting Mr Koon's words into rejecting Quran.
Meanwhile, u come writing with this controversial piece of biblical 'fact' to syok yr atheist ego! Could there be more behind this?
Not withstanding the role of Jesus within the Christianity faith, his private life was his own - god &/or not god! Yes?
Why so kaipochi - nothing better to do?
Could that be a parallel between yr 'hate' of Jesus vis-a-vis AI, put u in the state of mind that EVERY little thing they did/do is open to yr fancy?
Since atheist MUST be faith-blind, WHERE is yr equal stand on the other religious faiths? Or could it be, again, just like yr sifu said he doesnt comment on issues that he doesnt understand? Is that put u as an AI & Christianity bashing expert?
I would wage that there should be more to that - can the real ms muppet gives a few words, not that she like to comment in yr blog!
wakakakakaka....sigh...
aisehman, I didn't come up with the post all on my own - I refer to the bible as well as scholarly articles, wakakaka
DeleteTiming is EVERYTHING ma....right?
DeleteScholarly article? That's still open for debate...No?
Then, what about that nosy bit that u chose to ignore... guilty as charge?
kaytee cannot accept the fact that Jesus told him that there is always something kaytee lack. Perhaps, kaytee was extremely unhappy as it has something to do with his little brother
Deleteaiyoyo, looes claims to be a methodist yet he brings his Lord disparagingly down to talking about my lil' bro, wakakaka
Deleteooops, I forgot, looes is not an ordinary methodist but one from fiji who refused to obey Jesus advice to "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's", wakakaka
he should be burnt alive for apostasy, wakakaka
white horse is not a horse ma, according to blitish logic, not implementing hudud NOW means reject quran, or even islam.
DeleteEtis I'll be happy to publish your comments but would appreciate your Quranic references on your assertions
ReplyDeleteSee that CB pre-requisite?
DeleteWhen it's nothing related to Islam, everything goes!
Once it touches Islam, the head retreats back to the shell, almost instantly. R u sure u r writing from the land of Oz? Or could there be some restrictions mandated by somebody????
unbelievably so childish, wakakaka
Deletefreedom of speech ma, kt version. wakaka.
Deleteindeed HY, freedom of speech also applies for me mah, wakakaka
DeleteThe gospels were recorded about 2 millenniums ago by different people, long before paper was made available to the region.Communication and movement from one place to another was undoubtedly difficult and time consuming. Most followers probably had never seen or read the original gospels. They had to accept whatever the preachers conveyed to them.
ReplyDeleteThe authors could never have imagined or envisioned that, one day, apart from the 'official' versions, people would be able gather from under the earth and in the sea, and to translate the gospels into 'easy to understand' languages, and place them "side by side", to examine, compare and contrast, to seek out the smallest 'irregularities'!
-huaren
Paper was used since the piramid time, what talking you?
DeleteAccording to Wikipedia, paper was invented in China dung Han Dynasty (206 BC to 220AD).Introduced to other parts of the world much later
Delete-huaren
Read carefully
Deletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_paper
looes, you are not wrong if papyrus (a thin paper-like material) can be treated as paper !
DeleteLost Gospels ? or rehashed Gnostic Documents. They've been around forever, claiming secret knowledge, and contradicting the Cannon.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.earlychristianwritings.com/gnostics.html
as Bart Erhman himself says
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myqo2BrGka4
Best not to quote, a reference that supports your view points,
who also agrees that these Gnostics claimed, Secret Bull Shit knowledge.....
Pardon my french.....
Thanks K.T for the article. Inspiration for my next blog article......
Secret Bull Shit knowledge - which ones? The mainstream bible or the Gnostic gospels, or both
DeleteSee
Deletehttp://waytruthnlife.blogspot.ca/2015/03/gnosticism-or-lost-gospels.html
I don't think Rabbi Yeshua bin Yussof actually set out to found a new religion.
ReplyDeleteHe was just preaching a different interpretation of Judaism. The Jewish establishment found him to be a threat and convinced Roman civil authorities to arrest and crucify him, a punishment for common criminals in those days.
His followers greatly embellished his story. I have to say, they were master marketers.
In a supreme irony, that faith eventually took over the Roman imperium, setting the stage for a small Hebrew desert sect to become the world's most influential religion.
aha, very intellectual take
DeleteAnd the fucking cibai conclusion is
Delete... that you are a big bad chao cibai, wakakaka
DeleteThe conclusion is Rabbi Yeshua bin Yussof was a just man who was teaching a different / deviant (depending on your point of view) interpretation of Judaism.
DeleteYeshua bin Yussof would have taken to all the wants, needs of an ordinary man, including marriage to a woman, love and sexual intercourse.
The rest of the history of Christianity is a product of excellent marketing by his followers, and good luck.
It is easier to be teacher.......Cibai, even kaytee would love to associate to teachers/scholars
DeleteTo have one fella who persistently says that he is God.........
Back to the curious of KT MOK
Does he has a dick that is 1/2 inches shorter thaan average asian folks
what a co-incidence kt, or you took cue from the article below;
ReplyDeletehttp://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2015/03/07/guan-eng-condemns-married-jesus-booklets/
this happened recently in penang island @ home of the king of fruits vis balik pulau.
briefly, the booklet titled al-kitab claimed that jesus took a wife and the name was mary. i agree with the penang's cm when he said that both christians & muslims believed that mary was jesus's mother becos the information contained in my quran.
however, wrt jesus's marital status, let's see that my quran says:
the family of imran: 144
'Muhammad is not but a messenger. [Other] messengers have passed on before him. So if he was to die or be killed, would you turn back on your heels [to unbelief]? And he who turns back on his heels will never harm Allah at all; but Allah will reward the grateful'. (sahih international)
'Muhammad is but a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) have passed away before him. Will it be that, when he dieth or is slain, ye will turn back on your heels ? He who turneth back on his heels doth no hurt to Allah, and Allah will reward the thankful'. (m. pickthall)
and
the thunder: 38
'And We have already sent messengers before you and assigned to them wives and descendants. And it was not for a messenger to come with a sign except by permission of Allah . For every term is a decree' (sahih international)
'And verily We sent messengers (to mankind) before thee, and We appointed for them wives and offspring, and it was not (given) to any messenger that he should bring a portent save by Allah's leave. For everything there is a time prescribed'. (m.pickthall).
you will notice that only the rank or title that is mentioned without naming the individuals. and i recall reading somewhere that jesus was also called 'rabbi' by his people, and rabbi had wife(ves). if i don't recall wrongly, jesus had a younger bro by the name of james, and according to jewish law (jesus was a jew), a younger bro cannot marry if his elder bro doesn't take a wife first. is it not interesting?
there was Mary, mother of Jesus and wife of Joseph, and then there was Mary Magdelene, believed by many modern-day biblical s scholars to be the wife of Jesus
Deleteyes, those were two different individuals. the MARY as claimed by the al-kitab was in reference to mary magdelene. interestingly, some scholars believed that jesus had another wife, i can't recall the name.
Deleteif you were to read that freemalaysiatoday's article in which the following statement was made (don't think is from the cm), [you can say this is out of context]
'Christianity and Islam both hold that Jesus Christ was never married'.
since my quran is silent about jesus's marital status thus i reject the allegation. but if the jewish law is to be taken as an arbitration, then jesus must have married.
btw, siddhārtha gautama married princess yasodhara who gave him a son named rahul.
is it a crime or a sin to believe or think that jesus did take a wife(ves)? there's no law against thinking.
Paul was the one who promoted the belief Jesus was celibate. Paul hailed from Tarsus (somewhere in Turkey) a region which worshipped a god called Attis, one which as legend went, castrated himself for his virgin mate Cybele, thus projecting a quite lasting image for sexual abstinence and consequentially celibacy. Paul being from Tarsus was undoubtedly highly influenced by the concept of sexual chastity of the local god, and began to modify the new religion in accordance with his personal whims andnfancies
Delete"interestingly, some scholars believed that jesus had another wife, i can't recall the name. "
DeleteThe name is Lydia.
- hasan
If not wrong, Paul wrote anything can b consumed incl. Khinzir
DeleteIn Arabic rabb is god, rabbi is my god
Deleteand rabbi sound so close to rabbi.
to Jews, rabbi means teacher of Torah, a word which also means "my master" or in Chinese, sifu - wakakaka
DeleteAnon 1:06 pm, the singular most important Pauline teachings which saw the spread of Christianity was the non-necessity to circumcise
Deleteoriginally Christianity or more correctly the new version of Judaism as taught by Peter was not very inclusive (Judeans didn't sit together with gentiles during meals), required circumcision, observed all that Judeans observed (haram and halal)
Kaytee,
DeleteYou have always have something you lack. I bet it is your dick because somebody says that your dick is 1/2 inches shorter than average asian. Hahahaha.......jacque chirac says so
Hahahahaha
So........cibai kaytee......you refute this
Deletehttp://www.biblestudytools.com/acts/10.html
Dont believe in Jsus, dont believe la........why you.........must be ms peggy
cibai looes being a cibai person with cibai characteristics is naturally obsessed and fascinated by the size and length of dicks, wakakaka
DeleteHahahaha.......you know Paul Keating would have said something more despicable.
DeleteKaytee,
Seriously, how is your relationship with your misses? Everything alright? Having fancy with stripper named Nelson?
Gnostic gospels of Phillip, Mary and Thomas believe that the body and sex are dirty, whereas the soul/spirit is clean.
ReplyDeleteHowever, Jesus and Mary Magdalene were completely human – not Gods. As human beings don’t you think Jesus and Mary Magdalene have had got that feelings of love and sex? So thus Mark, Luke, Matthew, and John. ☺
- hasan
Somehow , I very much doubt one could attain a perfection of spiritual understanding or insight while Fucking the wife every night.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I think the compulsion of celibacy for mere ordinary mortals to serve whichever faith is unrealistic, especially in the 21st century.
btw, what exactly is the point of this article? i read holy blood holy grail, dead sea scroll deception, jesus the man etc in my twenties, i oso used to argue with the buddhist sifu some logic and history event, but finally i give up bec as rpk always say, religion is about faith. what do i oe anyone gain to prove the believers is wrong? apart like what anon assert this is purely an exercise of syok sendiri? I think this is yr hobby kot?
ReplyDeleteblogger's prerogative or as you put it, syiok sendiri. that's why some people become bloggers and have their own blog to post what they wish - don't have to explain any reason for posting a particular topic provided the blogger makes a sincere effort not to libel their subject
Deleteanhnea, yaamm sengggg!
Deletei fully appreciate yr profound knowledge in religion subject, and fully support anyone that cultivate such a nice, free n cheap hobby, as long as not overly bias n selective. it's cushy to criticize and be frank towards christianity but not others 'great' religion? just my observation.
DeleteI was educated in a Methodist school (like looes wakakaka) where I studied the Old & New Testament, and I continue (even till now) on the subject, thus I know slightly more about Judeo-Christianity than other religions, hence my frequent focus on the likes of Jacob, Judah, Samuel, King David, some of the most despicable men in the Bible especially the last
Delete"some of the most despicable men in the Bible especially the last"
DeleteIn the Bible lah... not in the other holy book.
- hasan
methodist or catholic, kaytee? Be honest, kaytee as you heard the story where uzzah was struck dead while touching the ark
Deletewhich is even more despicable?
King Ahab (Najib Razak) and Jezebel (Rosmah Mansoh)
Why you write nothing about King Ahab? Your fucking cibai master and lord
CB,
Delete'In the Bible lah... not in the other holy book.'
That's bcoz the Bible is the MOST dissected & discussed holy book in the world.
In a sense, its words & texts r been scrutinized & countered check by all & sundry - without exception.
Unlike one particular holy book. ONLY the 'learned' ulamas r allowed to exam & explain - no unlike to whose guarding the guards!
Some countries have lese majeste laws that are so uncompromising that a remark, even mildly critical, can earn the so-called culprit harsh punishment.
DeleteSimilarly, followers of some religions take their faith so seriously that any comment interpreted by them as insulting to their faith can earn the author of such comments immediate harsh reprisal or even a beheading.
Anon10:17 am, once the Christians treated their religion like how the Muslims do today, in invincible fear of their priesthood caste (according to Kassim Ahmad). Thus the Muslims are about 300 years behind the Christians, but one day they'll be so pissed off with their ulamas they do what most Christians do today, upholding separation of state and church
DeleteSo, what u r saying is that the Muslims r allowed to reinvent the wheels just bcoz they have a different interpretation of a monotheist Abrahamic faith?
DeleteIs that why, the ISIS want to destroy ancient historical relics so as to start anew in their religious interpretation?
More like it, since many modern ideas & conveniences r built by standing on the 'shoulders' of others, could these morons discard them & rebuilt from ground up? See where & what they would ended up...sigh...
If I would to follow yr rabbit hole logic, u might not need to work in Oz & talk cock, just like yr half anmoh sifu's latest taken-out-of-context interpretation of the chapter six, verses 114 and 115 of the Qur’an to argue with Mr Koon.
Wonder what Reza Aslan have to say about rejecting Huduh is disobeying Quran? What a wholesale laundering of a religious idea to suit one's twisted manipulation!
Exception in extract is now death - spurious 'ostab' is claiming the ONLY right of Quranic interpretation - just like the kalimah Allah issue.
Ooop... forgetting u r diehard kalimah Allah supporter.... my bad....sigh...
sorry I don't understand your non sequitur - to me you seem to eb talking cock
DeleteKaytee,
DeleteJust like micheal foot has said.........Cibai to you......Comprehendi?
KT 5:32 am, March 10, 2015,
Delete'Jacob, Judah, Samuel, King David, some of the most despicable men in the Bible especially the last'
below is a quranic verse concerning king david:
'He said: Surely he has been unjust to you in demanding your ewe (to add) to his own ewes; and most surely most of the partners act wrongfully towards one another, save those who believe and do good, and very few are they; and Dawood was sure that We had tried him, so he sought the protection of his Lord and he fell down bowing and turned time after time (to Him)'. (chapter 38 verse 24)
pls go to this link - http://www.englishtafsir.com/Quran/38/index.html
and just zoom in to no. 28 (blue in color) for the tafsir (explanation) of verses 17-26. it explained 3 important questions raised about king david namely:
(1) What was the error that the Prophet David committed?
(2) Why has Allah made only tacit allusions to it instead of mentioning it openly and directly?
(3) What is its relevance to the present context?
hope this will change your perception about king david.
Kampung,
DeleteI am not sure it is found in the quran. Talking about relevance in today's context. There is a story about King Ahab and his wife called Jezebel. Plenty of references
1) Mao and his fourth wife
2) Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos
3) Most importantly Najib and Rosmah
Looes,
Deletetrust you have read the explanation about our king david. i don't know about kt whether he is having a second thought about that. itu pun kalau dia baca.
to me, most important are the characteristics of individuals described in my quran. names are only for purpose of identification in differentiating one person from another. a good example is your moniker which tells me 1. you are a commenter in this blog & 2. an active participant, have own signature or trade mark, well informed & funny sometime. jangan marah, nanti kena jual leh.
now, about the relevancy of the characters (names are secondary) in today's world, they are 4 main ones;
1. ruler or leader - be it in the system of democracy, autocracy, theocracy, absolute monarchy or what have you - firaun.
2. chief of priests, the so-called the enforcer of god's law - haman
3. capitalist, the comptroller of economy - qarun
4. who? make a guess
the first 3 exist today, where's no. 4 now? or no longer exist.
kampong lad, firstly, it's strange Muslims consider David (Dawood) as a prophet whilst the Jews didn't/don't - to Jews he was a (so-called) great king, beloved of god.
Deletebut speaking from a Judeo-Christian point of view, we cannot allow David to get away from his horrendous evil, very very evil crimes of treachery, consorting with enemies (Philsitines) against his own people, genocidal persecution against his brethren the tribe of Benjamin, murder of his patron-mentor Saul and entire family including his own wife Michal (Saul's daughter) and his lover Jonathan (Saul's son), adultery with Bathsheba and most sinful murder of Uriah following adultery with Bathsheba (Uriah was Bathsheba's husband, who was a loyal general to him and fought battles for David while the latter was bonking his wife back home), and even fraud in authorship of the Psalms which were NOT written by him but by others, though of course his descendants who wrote the bible were the actual ones to be blamed for a vile act of misrepresenting the Psalms off as the genius of David.
No, he couldn't be forgiven for his vile evil crimes and sins just because, as I was told by a Christian preacher, he turned to god and repented. That's not a valid reason but a lousy excuse, one of shifting the entire responsibility back to god who had nothing to do with David's most evil unforgiveble crimes.
i look at the characteristics. to me, musa, daud sulaiman were both prophets and rulers (kings). we sometime call daud's son raja sulaiman. wrt daud being titled the beloved of god, i find nothing strange whatsoever becos adam, ibrahim, musa, isa & my prophet s.a.w. were narrated in my quran as viceroy (khalifah) of allah, friend (khalik) of allah, words (kalam) of allah, spirit (roh) of allah & messenger (rasul) of allah respectively. is it not similar to the concept of 'deva' & son of heaven, what do you think?
Delete"he will be born as kalki in the family of an eminent brahmin of sambhala village" - vishnu purana. this is a prophecy about someone's coming. don't you find it more of less identical to old testament? sounds familiar right?
following is the view of rev. r. bosworth-smith - 1839-1908 on my prophets.a.w.;
head of the state as well as the church, he was caesar and pope in one; but, he was pope without the pope's pretensions, and caesar without the legions of caesar, without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a police force, without a fixed revenue. if ever a man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was muhammad, for he had all the powers without their supports. he cared not for the dressings of power. the simplicity of his private life was in keeping with his public life.
different gospels, different stories. well, that's your view and your stand. you and i based on different sources, thus our views are different & it's our right, right kt?
this is my observation - if my prophet's goal was to gain power & wealth, he would have made the stories of ismail & ishak & daud as his vital weapon to claim the throne or as an effective marketing strategy to sell his product. on the contrary, he glorified all the prophets before him especially isa ibn maryam.
now about god - you don't believe in gods of firaun and ibrahim, but you might believe in gods of greek, hindu as well as sons of heaven, with reservations of course. i would like to rephrase my question - do you believe in 'force' which produces 'energy'? the energy that is created (born) revolves, lives, reproduces & dies, but the force still exists.
112.001 Say: He is Allah, the One!
112.002 Allah, the eternally Besought of all!
112.003 He begetteth not nor was begotten.
112.004 And there is none comparable unto Him
he begins not, nor ends. one & only & no allies. we can't see him without our naked eyes, except for those who use the intelligence and those who want to reflect.
the following is the reported conversation between a rabbi and ali bin abi tholib:
rabbi - when did your lord come in to existence?
ali - when did he not exist to say when did he exit? my lord was before 'before' without any 'before' and after any 'after' without 'after' and there is no end or limit to his goal. all limits end with him and he is the end of all limits.
rabbi - are you a prophet?
ali - woe unto you!. indeed i am one of the slaves of muhammad.
science can only explain how things happen, but can't explain why things happen. the worlds and its contents have been designed and programmed according to sunatullah (way of allah) which nobody can change & will remain unchanged without his will or authority.
ok looes, (9.55 am mar 12) just want to have fun.
Deletebetween the maharaja and his maharani, orang kampong pun tahu who holds the absolute power. DAH LAMA DAH.
remember empress dowager cixi?
"I've said it before and I'll say it again: the Bible is 100% accurate. Especially when thrown at close range." from The Tweet of God.
ReplyDelete-huaren
there was a debate in d mid '70s between jimmy swaggard n d late ahmad deedat. d topic was (if I m not mistaken) "is the bible the word of God" pls search in u tube. it is very enlightening.
DeleteThanks.
DeleteReligion D.
ReplyDeleteI'm Ula, the latest spokesperson of heaven. The creator and his spokespersons before me are mine.
Religion C. I'm the latest spokesperson of heaven.
The creator and his spokespersons before me are mine.
Religion B. I'm the latest spokesperson of heaven.
I die on a cross. The creator and spokespersons before me are mine.
Religion A. All. Taken. Gone.
-huaren
So, it is quite possible Jesus married Mary Magdelene, had a sexual relationships with her (perhaps in the opposite sequence) , maybe even had children....that certainly turns all baseline Biblical axioms upside down...
ReplyDeleteIf Jesus was just a man with all the weaknesses , urges and lusts of a man, then the whole structure of Christianity comes crashing down....
Now, there are aspects of other Abrahamic religions which are also morally very troubling.
Muhammad may well have engaged in ethnic cleansing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza
The Arabian peninsular was after that that largely "cleaned" of its Jewish population.
Muhammad was certainly a very war-like Prophet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_expeditions_of_Muhammad
Islam holds that they were wars of self-defence.
As these "defensive" wars continued, Muslim territories grew and grew, and more Unbelievers either died, converted or became slaves. How much of that "defensive" bit is just self-serving propaganda ?
thanks Jew Boy, but firstly I wonder why you're like some ulamas and Israelite priests, always focusing on "sex", wakakaka. Jesus or more correctly, Yehoshua ben Yosef was a rabbi, a married man, so having conjugal relationship with his wife and having children would and should be normal. The issue of Jesus being married and/or having children is considered as "deviant" by many Christians only because they have chosen to believe in the celibacy of their messiah, an image promoted by Paul of Tarsus - see one of my earlier comments above on why Paul promoted Jesus' celibacy. In many religions, gods or religious icons (eg. Buddha) had wives and children so such a marital status should be normal and not "deviant". Rather, to imagine a rabbi in the days of Jesus as unmarried in fact would be "deviant"
DeleteSecondly, wakakaka I see you have come around another way to press your point to everyone here Prophet Mohamad was warlike even unto committing genocide. This time you provided a reference which I appreciate - so let me quote a paragraph of the reference you provided me as follows:
"In 627, when the Quraysh and their allies besieged the city in the Battle of the Trench, the Qurayza violated a treaty with the Islamic prophet Muhammad by allying with the attacking tribes, aiming to attack Muslims from behind while the other attackers attack from the front .[11] Subsequently, the tribe was besieged by the Muslims and charged with treason by a judge accepted by both parties, Sa'd ibn Mu'adh.[12][13] According to Sa'd's verdict the men were beheaded, while all the women and children were taken captive and enslaved.[12][13][13][14][15][16] Several scholars have challenged the veracity of this incident, arguing that it was exaggerated or invented.["
Then was a period of war when teh word "genocide" did NOT exist - just like the Israleite god telling his believers to smite everyone (Canaanites, Amalekites, Philistines, etc) down, though from time to time his instructions "spared" those virgins (who have not laid down with men) wakakaka - over obsessed with sex as usual in the religion of the Israelites.
But we could easily argue on the same lines that Canaan was cleansed of all its original inhabitants by the invading Israelites, whose descendants today are committing the same act. And worse, among those Israelites, the House of Judah cleansed the House of Benjamin in a ketuanan Judean following the slaughter of King Saul and his entire family by David, a la (almost) 斩草不除根，春风吹又生 (pinyin: zhǎn cǎo bù chú gēn, chūn fēng chuī yòu shēng)
If Prophet Mohamad was warlike, then he was no different to the Israelite leaders - it doesn't matter whether it was defensive wars as the Muslim claimed or offensive wars as depicted by the bible of Israelites or by the modern press of Israelis. Victors in those days kept some of their captives as slaves
old saying, he who who lives in a glass house shouldn't throw stones, wakakaka
How could u used 斩草不除根，春风吹又生 to justify religious expansionism?
DeleteThen, again, how could a religious doctrine goes hand in hand with the genocide, happened in its wave of expansion?
It goes again the VERY inherent transient inclusive compassion of the TRUTH humanity - after all religious faith is ONLY another manifestation of the deepest human psychological needs.
Unless there is something WRONG with those faiths. Yes ....atheist?
BTW... have u not forget that there is NO concept of god in Buddhism? Buddha was a human that he never denied. NO?
As with his 'celibacy', do remember he achieved his enlightenment only after he married & been through a 'normal' human living.
One more thing - none of the other religious 'messengers' did what Prophet Mohammad did to expand his religious influences.
DeleteNone of them waged wars for the expansion of the Islam like Prophet Mohammad!
& please dont confuse these 'messengers' with later days religious propagandists, who create NEW religions to satisfy their hold onto the power that has been created.
Those messengers, NEVER in their widest dream, ever though of creating new religions. All they want was to give a NEW interpretation to the faith that they were brought up & educated with. In a sense, they want to bring their old believes up to date with the time settings & behavioral needs then.
Christianity has gone through that & comes up with many new interpretations of the Bible's texts, through horror trials & evil tribulations.
Meanwhile Islam is still stuck in the hellhole that waiting for someone to break it free from the control of the clerics.
Thus the often quoted need of reinventing the wheels, despite someone, some other faiths, have gone through the same evolutionary journey, it was been continuously been rejected.
The saddest part is the claim that Islam is different & complete & thus not need to change with time! Just think - iff it's complete one would not have an entity like ISIS now.
There is a huge difference between military leaders or political leaders who engage in war, even if they claim it to be on behalf of their faith, one one hand,
Deleteand one who claims to be a prophet, bringing the word of God, and in the same breath orders the killing of an entire population.
David was a king, a military leader and politician, cruel that he may have been but made no claims to being a holy man.
One side may be an example of human cruelty, the other is beyond cruelty, going into hypocrisy of the highest order.
BTW, I'm an atheist, so criticisms of Judaism hardly make any difference to me.
from the lovely OT:
DeleteThen, with Micah's idols and his priest, the men of Dan came to the town of Laish, whose people were peaceful and secure. They attacked and killed all the people and burned the town to the ground. There was no one to rescue the residents of the town, for they lived a great distance from Sidon and had no allies nearby. This happened in the valley near Beth-rehob. (Judges 18:27-28 NLT)
After Joshua died, the Israelites asked the LORD, "Which tribe should attack the Canaanites first?" The LORD answered, "Judah, for I have given them victory over the land." The leaders of Judah said to their relatives from the tribe of Simeon, "Join with us to fight against the Canaanites living in the territory allotted to us. Then we will help you conquer your territory." So the men of Simeon went with Judah. When the men of Judah attacked, the LORD gave them victory over the Canaanites and Perizzites, and they killed ten thousand enemy warriors at the town of Bezek. While at Bezek they encountered King Adoni-bezek and fought against him, and the Canaanites and Perizzites were defeated. Adoni-bezek escaped, but the Israelites soon captured him and cut off his thumbs and big toes. Adoni-bezek said, "I once had seventy kings with thumbs and big toes cut off, eating scraps from under my table. Now God has paid me back for what I did to them." They took him to Jerusalem, and he died there. The men of Judah attacked Jerusalem and captured it, killing all its people and setting the city on fire. (Judges 1:1-8 NLT)
"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction". (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)
When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are about to enter and occupy, he will clear away many nations ahead of you: the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. These seven nations are all more powerful than you. When the LORD your God hands these nations over to you and you conquer them, you must completely destroy them. Make no treaties with them and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them, and don't let your daughters and sons marry their sons and daughters. They will lead your young people away from me to worship other gods. Then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and he will destroy you. (Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT)
nice god, wakakaka
"They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings - Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba - died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho."
"Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves." Numbers 31:7-18 NLT
and I could go on and on, wakakaka
here was the Judean equivalent of Prophet Mohamad:
DeleteFrom 1 Samuel 15:3
“Go and attack the Amalekites! Destroy them and all their possessions. Don’t have any pity. Kill their men, women, children, and even their babies. Slaughter their cattle, sheep, camels, and donkeys.”
nice prophet, wakakaka
kt 12:48 pm
Delete'Qurayza violated a treaty'
they betrayed the medina charter. it was a 'kill or be killed' situation. they become worse than parasites. who in the right mind would not want to do the same thing. is it not our right to defend our lives?
Then they surrendered, and the apostle confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of B. al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy b. Akhtab and Ka`b b. Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. As they were being taken out in batches to the apostle they asked Ka`b what he thought would be done with them. He replied, 'Will you never understand? Don't you see that the summoner never stops and those who are taken away do not return? By Allah it is death!' This went on until the apostle made an end of them. Huyayy was brought out wearing a flowered robe in which he had made holes about the size of the finger-tips in every part so that it should not be taken from him as spoil, with his hands bound to his neck by a rope. When he saw the apostle he said, 'By God, I do not blame myself for opposing you, but he who forsakes God will be forsaken.' Then he went to the men and said, 'God's command is right. A book and a decree, and massacre have been written against the Sons of Israel.' Then he sat down and his head was struck off.[2][3][4]
DeleteIbn Ishaq - Biographer of Muhammad
Nice prophet...wakakkakkaa
only Jews have justifications to kill, slaughter, betray others inclduing mass killings a la genocides for they're The Chosen People, the Supreme Race, while goyims (Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, all non-Jews) are evil untermenschen, basically bastards and bitches, who all deserve to f* die
Deletewakakakakaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
whether one believes in god's existence or believes that god doesn't exist (both are the believers, only diff is one's belief is the opposite to the other), that will not prohibit one from protecting own life when threatened. this is nature, meaning the way of life. (addeen = religion)
Deletei believe the verse that you quoted above is unquestionably applied to 'paman sam' & the warring factions in the middle east today. see below.
002.190 'Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors'.
'aggressors' is explained as follows:
1. Don’t kill women, or children, or old people, or monks, nor anyone who gives you the salaam. This is the statement of Ibn Abbaas and Muhaahid
2. Included in that is the commission of prohibited acts – as al-Hasan al-Basree said – from the mutilation (of bodies), stealing from the war booty, and killing women, children, and senile old men who are unable to fight, and (prohibited are) the killing of monks and hermits, and the burning of trees, and killing animals for no beneficial reason – as was said by Ibn Abbaas, Umar bin Abdul Azeez, Muqaatil bin Hayyaan, and others.
U r one hell of a hipocrate.
DeleteOn one hand, u keep doubting the accuracy of the Bible (both new & old) while on the other hand keep using the stories mentioned in the holy scripture to blank shoot selectively yr arguments.
Remember, all these 'books' were written long after the occurrence of the actual incidents by whosoever, on whatsoever purposes that suited them.
What u have done, beside syok sendiri, is pure cock, to say the least!
Just as those who do it to Jesus at crufixication.........Forgive that cibai motherfucker kaytee........We know that Ms Peggy may have violated KT MOK's buttock......We knew some how he is related Lim Yew Hock.......went missing in aussie land........hahahaha
DeleteLet it be la.......
Unless
Lupus aka CL Flamiaries comes in to do some exorcism.....
If he got balls........Which I don't think he has
Call me
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Swaggart
ReplyDeleteJimmy Swaggart was one of the most successful US Christian TV Ministers.
At one time over 250 television stations across the country carried his program.
Then reports surfaced that he regularly visited a prostitute (familiar story ?).
He confessed subsequently , but his career was damaged.
There was a second incident where a policeman pulled him over for a suspected traffic incident, and it turned out his passenger was a prostitute.
He is still a preacher today, but with a much more limited audience.
The Catholic Chuch today has many perverts, paedophiles, child molesters, sodomites, lesbians among its ministry.
ReplyDeleteThe surface veneer of celibacy (not being married) just covers plenty other moral transgressions.
What is the point of having such profound knowledge?
ReplyDeleteFor this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'
That is why I say ktemoc was extremely loathe the idea that people keep him that he is always lacking of something. Not sure which one.......Perhaps, his little brother.
As for the muslim, notice that they would always reference to Jesus.
In Quran, they say Jesus was born miraculously and His mother was a virgin. But then when it comes to divinity, hehehehe........
Whatever la.........The point is till Islam is no longer the state religion, pointless in talking this.
Hence why kaytee is so afraid that his little brother kenna potong.
Guys and Gals,
Like Phua Chu Kang ( another christian punjabi) who used to say, use your blain. Use your blain.
I have always feel it was wrong to crucify Jesus because the person who should be crucified is looes, wakakaka, with an extra nail to pin down and highlight his microscopic lil' bro, wakakaka again
Deletealternatively we could sembileh him slowly, very slowly, and enjoy his squealing like a babi hutan being slaughtered, wakakaka
grammar typo - above "[I have always] feel" should have been "felt", wakakaka
DeleteAgain, first, you have to come singapore/malaysia to cruciify me. Then , the authority would take you into custody on the ground on why you cibai ktemoc violated the first tenet of RUKUN NEGARA
DeleteBELIEVE IN GOD
Any reference to what happening in Indo kah? Pancasila kah? Useless......
The point is
Ktemoc is an Atheist who
DOES NOT BELIEVE IN GOD
Kaytee,
Is that why you such monarch's dick? Useless........No believe in god.........mampus
kt, do you sincerely believe that god does not exist? if yes, then please enlighten me about water & reproduction system.
Delete1. water is life. since the earth is never short of water, why can't all the living things live forever?
2. to reproduce, a pair is needed. mortals can also create living things such as engine but it is incapable of multiplying.
(1) depends on what you mean by 'god'. if by 'god' you're referring to the one almighty god of Pharaoh Akhenaten and that of the Abrahamic religions, then I can sincerely say I do NOT believe in such a being. If 'god' refers to the 'deva' of the Hindu, Chinese or even (wakakaka) Greek pantheon, then I might believe in such, but with many qualifiers
Delete(2) the answer is Nature and Evolution. Water is H2O, Hydrogen is the most bountiful element in the universe so no problem. Reproduction by some species is not dependent on pairs, but all are designed by Nature and Evolution, to be born (bud), live, reproduce and die - even a deva must be born and will eventually die
Then who design the Nature..........Hahahaha........
DeleteCibai, still know why people say there is something you lack
Dick length or strength.......choose?
Then who design the Nature..........Hahahaha........
DeleteCibai, still know why people say there is something you lack
Dick length or strength.......choose?
Christian in Malaysia is only being taught about love or Jesus's love.
ReplyDeleteTry ask any Christians in Malaysia about Hudud or Jihad in Bible and all will deny them.
Jesus says bring them sinners in front of me and slay them all. etc
the last line sounds like it's from looes' church, wakakaka
DeleteCibai.......you dont even believe in god lor........guilty as charged/
DeleteOk lah Jesus was chaste; Muhammad was polygamist. I can live with it.
ReplyDeleteKT... next post please, please....
- hasan
Just go back to brunei......ok, hasan.......
Delete"only Jews have justifications to kill, slaughter, betray others inclduing mass killings a la genocides for they're The Chosen People, the Supreme Race" - Ktemoc.
ReplyDeleteOne of the uglier aspects of this blog is the owners' all-encompassing antipathy towards Jews.
Its way beyond opposition to the policies and actions of Israel or even opposing the existence of the State of Israel.
Ktemoc is as ugly as those who are simply against Muslims as Muslims, or those who basically dislike all Chinese
I have written on this before so I don't want to run through the various reasons why I do NOT hate NOR dislike Jews. In fcat I like many fo tejm, though of course not Benjamin Netanyahu, wakakaka.
DeleteI am tired of these frequent accusations as if the Israelis or Jews cannot be criticized in the face of political realities today, that they are the most teflonized race in the world. Call me what you like coz I don't give a fig as such offensive accusations are based more than emotional responses than valid reasons.
Why tried? You are not muslims? Not even descendant of Hitler? Perhaps some of your relatives were given citizenships because of one Jew.
DeleteTell me what the cibai fuck youmake this statement
"only Jews have justifications to kill, slaughter, betray others inclduing mass killings a la genocides for they're The Chosen People, the Supreme Race" - Ktemoc.
That is why I say you are a pig
KT
ReplyDeleteAs revealed by you and others, no religion is without a violent past. The followers killed and in turns they were killed. The killings have not stopped up to the present time. No sign there won't be more bloodshed in future in the name of god and/or religion(s). Isn't this the failure of god and its teaching ?
-huaren
belief or no belief and whether in the god's name or in nobody's name, the killings had happened, have been happening & will continue to happen. evergreen.
DeleteHuaren,
DeleteEven Atheist has violent past........How 40 millions wasted on achieving Great Leap Forward? Still got the cheek of allowing 1942 to past through when the shame is on commies. Who happen to be buch of atheists?
The fact is why kaytee continue this discourse and make this very profound
"only Jews have justifications to kill, slaughter, betray others inclduing mass killings a la genocides for they're The Chosen People, the Supreme Race" - Ktemoc.
Why only Jews? We should be asking kaytee........What is wrong with you with the Jews? Oh come on, how did Jews affecting him? His dick? His sister's cat? What.......hahahaha
It is kaytee's perogative to make such profound statement and our perogative of condemning it. only if there is a guillotine
Kaytee,
dun complain if people react this way. why nobody condemn anil netto, a catholic? Why?
cibai looes, the reason why most Jews have been to get away with war crimes and other bullshit has been because of some American Christians (Christian Right including you), wakakaka.
Deleteyour belief in the second coming of your messiah has led you and most American Christian Right into supporting Israel and all things Jewish with absolute total blindness, even unto their modern day attempted genocide of the Palestinians and the stealing of Arab land - there are several of my posts on this, showing your idiotic religiously-blinded support
you cibai looes has been the one Christian most responsible, wakakaka. I'm gonna send you to fiji where you'll be slaughtered and barbecued like a squealing pig for your apostasy where you refused to heed Jesus' teaching to "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's" - you cibai heretical hypocrite
Jews really getting away with war crimes? I thought Jews kenna persecuted all the time. How long does the united isreal last? Only 3 generations, right? Why selectively quoting parts of the bible when ample of evidences of how isrealis kenna bullied by all the -kies.........Read Book of Judges
DeleteYeah, jerusalem was sacked and all possessions kenna taken away to Babylon. Including men, women and children.
Never heard of palestinians (is there really palestinian in the past? I don't give a damned fuck) kenna taken captive and sent to abyss in the past. Hehehehe
Sent me to Fiji.......Do come back to malaysia to face your violation of first tenet of rukun negara
kampong lad 11.4, looes 1.26
DeleteDo you imply that followers of religion are no different from atheists ?
(Even though people of faith clam they mean and want peace).
-huaren
did paman sam invade iraq & other countries in god's or noboby's name? what the nonsense that they have been doing especially in the middle east now is also becos of their religion i.e. capitalism, hence its followers are called capitalists.
Deletekampong lad. Doubt you have answered the comparison with atheists. -huaren
Deletedear huaren,
Deleteyou be the judge.
Kampong lad
DeleteFrom you, followers of religion(s) are no different from atheists and capitalists in the way they kill.
-huaren
killings had also happened, have been happening & will continue to happen in the animal kingdom, so what religion(s) are they following? or do they also believe that 'god' does not exist just like atheists?
Delete006.038 There is not an animal in the earth, nor a flying creature flying on two wings, but they are peoples like unto you. We have neglected nothing in the Book (of Our decrees). Then unto their Lord they will be gathered.
animals only kill for food to survive and preserve own territories but men kill (animals & men too) not only for food and protecting borders, but also for fun and gain power and wealth. look at a plant and its leaves, you will see the element of survival of the fittest exists. the weak creatures will perish.
dear huaren, nak tambah sikit boleh?
Deleteanimals and plants are men's best teachers both in good & bad manners. take slaughtering (kill in the best manner) for example, where did men get the idea to slash the throat? what will happen when snakes are not around to 'take care' of the mice.
the only difference among the creatures is men are empowered to choose.
so, men can choose to be in compliance or non-compliance with the way or system of allah. we are witnessing men behaving worse than the animals who are incapable of doing such things. itu saja la.
Huaren,
ReplyDeleteRather humans that made everything bad including religion. To me, atheism is a form of religion. People can be extremely violent. Just look at kaytee's attitude. How he continuously screwing poor Anwar even though he is now languishing in prison. Since kaytee is answerable to nobody but himself.........hehehehe
looes
DeleteAgree with you. Human nature is not always good.
Followers of religion are as violent as atheists.
But it's way too far-fetched to say that 'atheism is a form of religion'.
-huaren
Atheism is just another religion.
ReplyDeleteThe last time I checked, the Jews have been without a country, without an army , for more than 2,000 years, except for the last 68 years.
ReplyDeleteIn the broad sweep of human history, I would consider the Jews among the most innocent of all peoples of killings, massacres, invasions, territorial aggression, ethnic cleansing , genocide etc.
It is a mistake to be fixated on the Old Testament in analysing Christianity. Jesus accepted the Hebrew Bible , he was after all born into a Jewish environment. But that is not the essence of his message.
ReplyDeleteChrist's main message is in the New Testament. The beauty and gentle Word of the New Testament is the reason for Christianity's worldwide appeal.
Otherwise we would just have Judaism, which at the time was limited to a some thousands of followers in a remote corner of the Roman Empire.
aha Charlie, now you're the one of the few who can defend your religion well, best comment on Christianity so far
Deletelooes as a methodist has been a monumental disgrace to Christianity, but we have to forgive him because his fijian christianity rejected Jesus' advice to render unto caesar what are caesar's
Jews
ReplyDeleteBiblical Jew -cousin to Arabs
European Jew - who the heck are these pork eating socialist . Khazars fr Central Asia converted to Judaism. And now they are the ruling elite in Israel.
Who or what is Jesus?By the way, the other who or what , Christ?
ReplyDeleteAny Chinese or Indian prophets?
Any Christians/Nasranians/Jesusrians always say they are men of science. How do you explain the miracle birth of Jesus?For human, you need sperm n egg to make a baby.
Anon 1.18
ReplyDeletelooes
Fine.
Just say no to the supernatural.
-huaren