KTemoc Konsiders ........: The Halal Haram Confusion Continues

Saturday, September 21, 2024

The Halal Haram Confusion Continues - Despite 1446 Years Of Religion.

Saturday, September 21, 2024

The Halal Haram Confusion Continues - Despite 1446 Years Of Religion.

Note that another word that I do not use too easily is 'Islam'.
I prefer the more generic word "religion".

There can only be one Islam but there are hundreds of versions, sects and flavors of religion - including those psycho deviants like the liwat fellows who have now been arrested.

So you have to be careful whether you are talking about Islam or you are really talking about your sect, tareqat, or your version of "religion". To Dr Farouk Musa and Justice Hamid Sultan who are both budding "religious" scholars and thinkers please always keep this in mind.

I just received an article written by Dr Farouk Musa which he says is a rebuttal to yet another article written by the retired Justice Datuk Hamid Sultan Abu Backer. The subject matter is the halal-haram issue. As I said, despite the passage of 1,446 years of "religion" there still seems to be so much opinion and rebuttal about what is halal and haram.

Perhaps the much bigger question that both Dr Farouk Musa and Justice Hamid Sultan should ponder is why so much confusion and disagreement still persists despite the passage of 1,446 years? What went wrong?

First a brief of Hamid Sultan's article and then Dr Farouk's rebuttal.

My journey in Islamic jurisprudence and the halal-haram dilemma
Hamid Sultan Abu Backer
-18 Sep 2024

Muslims capable of regulating food, drink without excessive govt intervention.
Free Malaysia Today
I began my journey to read Quran at the tender age of five
The Quranic text of what is haram is specific
we never entered the human rhetoric of what is halal
to shut out those who rely on rhetoric to explain haram and permissible
I attended postgraduate programmes in Islamic jurisprudence
emphasis on what is haram
but again nothing to define what is halal

(OSTB : If the haram is so clear, then logically shouldnt everything that is not haram be automatically halal? We are addressing a simple duality. For example only certain crimes are punishable by the death penalty. These "capital offenses" are clearly written down. Anything outside the defined capital offenses cannot be punishable by death).

multi-religious, multi-cultural makeup of country and rule of law
Under constitution Islamic law confined to personal and family law for Muslims
shariah authorities, including Jakim, have no power over non-Muslims
halal-haram : constitutionally erroneous for Jakim and shariah authorities to dictate conditions to food establishments owned by non-Muslims, including the need for them to secure a halal certificate

(OSTB : I have a suggestion for the no pork no alchohol restaurants. Instead of hanging a sign saying 'No Pork No Alchohol' just hang up a small Malaysian flag. That means the restaurant is Malaysian, for all Malaysians. What will they do next ? Ban the Malaysian flag?)

Here is a brief of Dr Farouk Musa's rebuttal:

A Rebuttal To Hamid Sultan Abu Backer’s View On The Halal-Haram Dilemma
September 19, 2024

Ahmad Farouk Musa

I read the piece by Hamid Sultan Abu Backer with much interest

he erred that while concept of haram is very clear, what is halal isn’t so

For restaurant owners who think it is govt overreach to insist they acquire Halal certification to sell food to Muslims, I would suggest that they display a prominent NON-HALAL sign (instead of NO-Pork and NO-Lard sign). That would be less confusing and more honest.

(OSTB : Dr Farouk this is not logical. Supposing the non-Muslim, Chinese fellow sells mee hailam or chicken rice (no pork, no alchohol) where all his ingredients are also 'no pork no alchohol' and his chicken is bought from a halal supplier how does his mee hailam or chicken rice become "HARAM"? Lets say he then gets a halal certification, his ingredients do not change, he still buys the same mee hailam, he buys chicken from the same halal vendor. Everything remains the same - suddenly he becomes halal - just because he now has a halal sticker? But nothing has changed).

I fully agree with Justice Hamid Sultan's point that : "constitutionally erroneous for Jakim and shariah authorities to dictate conditions to food establishments owned by non-Muslims, including the need for them to secure a halal certificate"

And my question remains unanswered - JAKIM does not have legal jurisdiction over anything to do with religion outside the Federal Territories. That Halal Sticker issued by Jakim has no legal standing outside the Federal Territory. Religion is a state matter under the respective Malay Rulers. If there is a legal dispute over Halal Certification (Jakim's Halal Sticker) in any of the States, it can be challenged in Court that Jakim's Halal Certification does not have legal standing in the States. Jakim would have already collected the very expensive fees for the Halal Certification but no compensation can be claimed by a complainant in the event of a dispute. Banyak cantik. Is this 'Islamic' or is it "religion"?

I have a few other points. Both Justice Hamid Sultan and Dr Farouk are talking about "religion". But not surprisingly neither of them quoted even one verse from the Quran to back up anything they said. And Justice Hamid says he began reading the Quran at age FIVE. Then why cant you quote even one verse of the Quran to back up what you say?

Here is a challenge to Justice Hamid Sultan (and Dr Farouk). If you can meet the imam at the Tamil Muslim Mosque (or any mosque) hand him an Arabic Quran and ask him to open say Surah 39 for you. Believe me he will probably fumble. If you really want to torture him, tell him to open Surah al Zumar, without mentioning the surah number. (Surah 39 is Surah al Zumar).

You can try the same even with a translated Quran (English, Tamil, Malay etc). I have seen people wearing white jubah and kopiah who were not able to find the page location of a surah in the Quran. That is how poorly Muslims know their own Quran.

I am not surprised that both Justice Hamid Sultan and Dr Farouk did not quote a single verse from the Quran to back up what they say.

The Quran and Islam are indeed rahmatan lil alameen or a mercy for the worlds. The world is so huge. Here is a picture of the Eskimo people or the Inuit people who live in the far northern lattitudes (Canada, Greenland, Scandinavia, Russia).

Can you see even ONE SINGLE BLADE OF GRASS growing on the ground? No. Can you see any halal chickens, lamb, cows and halal goats running in the background? No. This is their snowy and icy winter which can last six months.

The Inuit or Eskimo people hunt and eat whatever they can catch in their natural environment. "Inuit hunt polar bears for their meat and hide". The Inuit people also catch fish, whales, seals, foxes, lemmings - all of which go into their diet as well.

The Inuit people value highly the meat of the seals which they say is extra nourishing. They say seal meat is the one meat on which an Eskimo can survive even if there is no other meat available.

Here is another picture of a capybara. This is a rodent, a giant rat that lives in the Amazon jungle.

The native people who live in the Amazon jungle catch and eat this animal. It is a major source of protein, besides fish, anaconda snakes, Cayman crocodiles and other creatures. It is food for the Amazon Indians. They do not have halal sheep or lamb in the Amazon jungle. Cattle ranches are a more recent introduction by European colonials and not part of the diet for the tribal people.

Even our Orang Asli in the jungles and our Dayak cousins in Sarawak and Sabah eat what they hunt. They do not hunt goats, lamb, cows or camels in the rainforest.

Where is the rahmatan lil alameen when it comes to "religious" dietary prescriptions for these people?

If the Inuits and the Amazon Indians ask you, "What is halal?" what will you say? Will you tell the Inuits and the Amazon Indians 'Eat fish. Fish is halal'.

Has this question been asked of the Rasul or Messenger in the Quran?
Yes. The answer is Yes. "They ask you what is halal?"

Surah 5:4 يَسْـَٔلُونَكَ مَاذَآ أُحِلَّ لَهُمْ ۖ قُلْ أُحِلَّ لَكُمُ ٱلطَّيِّبَـٰتُ ۙ

(yas'aluna-ka maza uhilla lahum qul uhilla lakum at toyyibaatu) which means, "They ask you what is halal for them? Say, halal FOR YOU are all the good things (toyyibatu)" . ..

This is the only answer FROM THE RASUL about what is halal FOR YOU. If it is good for your body then it is halal. It is so simple.

Say the Eskimo or the Amazon Indians had a chance to meet the Rasul and asked the Rasul 'What is halal?'. The answer would have been أُحِلَّ لَكُمُ ٱلطَّيِّبَـٰتُ 'halal FOR YOU are all the good things.

The Eskimos and the Amazon Indians would have returned to their natural environment.

May I also draw the attention of both Justice Hamid Sultan and Dr Farouk to the following verse which has a list of haram.

Surah 6:151 ۞ قُلْ تَعَالَوْا۟ أَتْلُ مَا حَرَّمَ رَبُّكُمْ عَلَيْكُمْ ۖ أَلَّا تُشْرِكُوا۟ بِهِۦ شَيْـًۭٔا ۖ وَبِٱلْوَٰلِدَيْنِ إِحْسَـٰنًۭا ۖ وَلَا تَقْتُلُوٓا۟ أَوْلَـٰدَكُم مِّنْ إِمْلَـٰقٍۢ ۖ نَّحْنُ نَرْزُقُكُمْ وَإِيَّاهُمْ ۖ وَلَا تَقْرَبُوا۟ ٱلْفَوَٰحِشَ مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَمَا بَطَنَ ۖ وَلَا تَقْتُلُوا۟ ٱلنَّفْسَ ٱلَّتِى حَرَّمَ ٱللَّهُ إِلَّا بِٱلْحَقِّ ۚ ذَٰلِكُمْ وَصَّىٰكُم بِهِۦ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ

The two words in red حَرَّمَ are 'harama' (haram).

Please note these two حَرَّمَ very carefully, we will revisit them shortly

Surah 6:151

Say, “Come! Let me recite to you what your Lord has HARAM upon you,
that you do not associate anything with Him

and do good to your parents
and do not kill your children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and them.
and do not come near indecencies, openly or secretly.
and do not take a ˹human˺ life -made HARAM (حَرَّمَ) by Allah- except justly.
This is what He has commanded you, so perhaps you will understand.

This is a list of HARAM -

do not associate partners,
do good to your parents,
do not kill your children,
do not approach indecent behaviour,
do not kill human life unjustly.

Please note that included in this list of haram is "do good to your parents".
Doing good to your parents is a HARAM?
So what does HARAM really mean?

Now look at the second haram (حَرَّمَ) in Surah 6:151 above.

Most translators translate this HARAM as SACRED. (Another example Masjidil HARAM = SACRED mosque).

So these are the HARAM or SACRED things :