Thursday, September 18, 2014

PAS' true colours

TMI - PAS must know this: Malaysia is not a theocracy

warts & all is still better than a Mullah-Land

The above is an excellent editorial by The Malaysian Insider, not that PAS will love it. In it are a few interesting points that I will quote to share with you.

However, here in my post I'm not so much into commenting on PAS' age-old ambition to implement syariah laws as a complete replacement of Malaysian civil laws, nor will I be commenting on PAS' obsession with that part of syariah laws which deals specifically with some aspects of Islamic punishment, to wit, hudud, nor will I be commenting on our frequently validated perception of PAS clinging on to its 3-P doctrine, namely, to prohibit, persecute and punish.

It's something I've already stated often in my posts and which I am very much, deeply, concerned about. It's about what Kassim Ahmad had mentioned, much to the ulama's ire. It's the 'priesthood caste', and worse, their role in Malaysian democracy or rather their incongruity with democracy per se.

For a quick glimpse of what Kassim Ahmad had said, let's peruse the Malaysian Business Tribune where we would be able to read:

Speaking at an event organised by the Perdana Leadership Foundation, controversial scholar Kassim Ahmad said that Islam in Malaysia has been abused through a “priesthood caste” system.

“This priesthood caste did not exist at the time of the Prophet or the four caliphs. They only emerged about 300 years later by appointing themselves as interpreter of religion for Muslims,” he said.

“They (Muslims) view their religious leaders like gods and goddesses, that these leaders are seen to be protected from maksum (protected from sin) and must decide on everything about their lives.”

And gnam gnam, TMI editorial today says about PAS: 

... the most dangerous theme running through the party is that the cleric class cannot be criticised*. This is akin to putting some really flawed individuals on a pedestal reserved for the Almighty.

They can't be criticised by their own members nor can they be criticised by their allies. When did it come to this, that thin-skinned clerics run a party without question? Is this a political party or one of scholars who think they have a heavenly mandate?

* but I just love the job description, wakakaka

Incidentally for Christians, this was how a jealous priest Samuel brought down the people's choice of a good king, Saul, and the eventual and horrendous decimation (genocide) of not only the House of Saul but also of the Tribe of Benjamin by the House of Judah. But let's leave this for another post.

My sole aim in raising a brief reference to that particular biblical evil by one of the 'priesthood caste' was to remind Christians the problem of an unchallenged priesthood caste lies not only among the ulama but also in Christianity (and indeed in Buddhism, Hinduism, Chinese native religions, etc).

The TMI editorial continues:

We have been making too many excuses for PAS for too long. Datuk Nik Aziz Nik Mat was an aberration. The likes of Datuk Seri Abdul Hadi Awang and Datuk Harun Din are the norm and till today none of the PAS leadership have condemned the barbaric beheadings by Isis.

Instead, they collected money for one Malaysian fighter who died in the Middle East despite him having been sacked from PAS. And they now dub him a martyr.

I have only one specific disagreement with the above. Pak Haji Nik Aziz might be held in reverence by many, but I remember quite distinctly that in August 2010 the frail grandfatherly-looking Pak Haji showed his hard cruel face when he called for the death sentence for those who dumped their babies born out of wedlock, but without mentioning or considering the social, cultural and yes, religious circumstances which left those young and probably teenage mums no or very little other choice.

Consider the typical treatment by a secular state in a Western democracy. It would have been diametrically opposite to Pak Haji's cruel crushing capital punishment for those very much frightened young 'mums', already suffering from desertion, desperation, and deprivation of love, support and compassion.

They would be, and we should be emulating them in, placing emphasis on compassion, education, guidance and counselling rather than stoning people to death. And if society has been more understanding, and parents or families of the unfortunate young women provide support in accepting and caring for the unwanted babies, we would have less of ‘baby dumping’.

As if that was not cruel enough, Pak Haji had then shocked us further by demanding that illicit (unmarried) lovers be stoned to death.

It's bad enough to have capital punishment without that barbarous Middle-Eastern atrocity, which is best left to the Arabs and Israelis
(recall in which country was this first said “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her”?).

In Malaysiakini's Karpal locks horns with Nik Aziz over baby dumping, the late Karpal Singh commented that Nik Aziz's proposal was far far too harsh, when more should instead be done to study the root cause of the baby dumping.

But in the end we have seen not only the cruelty, dictatorship and arrogance of the 'priesthood caste', but the treachery of PAS towards its Pakatan allies (as if  great religion like Islam condones treachery), the misogyny of its old men, and what I had posted much earlier and in many of my posts, as follows:

I had warned in my post PAS - from Progressive to Pythonic that once Malaysia has been established as an Islamic State, we can forget about Westminster democracy, where any of its pseudo-democracy and associated institutions under Islamic rule will automatically come under the control of a supreme, non-questionable, non-challengeable (a la the fatwas of the former PAS Kedah MB), and totally dictatorial religious Majlis ...

... and as mentioned by RPK in his post Friday prayers are NOT compulsory, said the Mufti, the process in an Islamic environment is not democratic and not questionable even by logic, reason, precedent or rules.

Additionally, the Malay nationalists in PAS (and that's who some of them really are), much as they believe in bangsa, could only scream agama because politically it has only the religious warrant, unlike UMNO which can switch flexibly (or unscrupulously) from bangsa to raja to agama to negara and even to 1Malaysia as its clarion call of the day without any qualms or embarrassment, wakakaka.

Yes, more than a few PAS members, despite their religious profession of the supra-nationalistic Islam, possess a similar belief in UMNO's Ketuanan Melayu because the ethnocentric Devil is still ensconced in the local political-social-cultural DNA.

To remove or defeat it, we will require sterling leadership and example like those exhibited by Brother Haris Ibrahim, Zaid Ibrahim, Saifuddin Abdullah and indeed Kassim Ahmad.

In the end, perhaps we should even thank Anwar Ibrahim for his Kajang Satay, for though it had failed abysmally and disastrously (as it rightly should, for it was never about Pakatan objectives but merely those of the PKR's inner coterie), the move has nonetheless brought out some beneficial side effects, that of revealing the true colours of PAS, for what the political party really is, a so-called 'partner' who has been unreliable, treacherous and arrogantly hostile .

Most important of all, watch out for those 'priestly caste'.


  1. Kindly don't mix Saifuddin Abdullah together with Haris Ibrahim. Else you might as well glorify Friedrich Wilhelm Kritzinger as a saint. Sorry, atheist never believe in folk more powderful than atheist himself

  2. You wrote: In the end, we should thank Anwar Ibrahim for his Kajang Satay for revealing the true colours of PAS.

    Not so fast ... for those with eyes, they have looked through the window and saw for themselves the ugly nakedness of Religious Leaders. They definitely don't need the likes of Anwar and his Kajang Satay to reveal the truth.

    1. That's NOT exactly what I have written. It should be:

      In the end, perhaps we should EVEN thank Anwar Ibrahim for his Kajang Satay, for though it had failed abysmally and disastrously (as it rightly should, for it was never about Pakatan objectives but merely those of the PKR's inner coterie), the move has nonetheless brought out some beneficial side effects ... yadda yadda ...

      You missed out the important adverb "even" which implies a sarcasm. Furthermore I criticized the Satay in case people like you wakakaka missed the sarcasm.

      Sorry, it's English

  3. PAS is not a monolithic party, just as DAP is not a monolithic party.
    There is the part of PAS who have an overriding aim to put in place a theocracy, and if it takes a super-Muslim alliance with UMNO to achieve that, so be it.

    There are also an important element in PAS whose vision is an inclusive Malaysia, based on core Islamic values as well as social justice. They fit in comfortably with DAP and PKR.
    Mat Sabu, Mujahid Rawa and Khalid Abdul Samad are the leading elements of this wing.

    What he have now is a very public struggle between these two elements for control of the future direction of PAS. Unfortunately , PAS's constitutional structure is such that the conservative Ulamas have heavily weighted decision making power in the party.

    The Erdogans deserve our support, instead of simply labelling all of PAS as an extreme party.

    Frankly , there are also Chinese chauvinists in DAP whose overriding focus is on Chinese objectives and are suspicious of other races.
    Not really so different from PAS, except the current DAP leadership plays a moderating role.

    1. sasaran post saya adalah si-'priesthood caste", wakakaka

  4. Islam is for Justice5:20 pm, September 18, 2014

    Matamat PAS untuk mewujudkan Malaysia sebagai Negara Islam.
    Majority penduduk mahukan system kerajaan berlandaskan Islam.

    Hak perlembagaan penduduk bukan Islam terus diperihala.
    Bukan Islam bebas menganut agama masing-masing, kerajaan tidak akan masuk campur dalam aktiviti peribadi asalkan sah disisi undang-undang.

    Akan tetapi, aktiviti awam yang bercanggah dengan Islam akan diharamkan.
    Perbuatan maksiat, perjudian, minum arak dikhayalak ramai , lain-lain gejala social adalah haram

    1. maka nasib yg bukan Muslim baik sekarang olih kerana undang-undang Malaysia masih tidak menghalang kami minum yamseng atau main 4-Ekor, wakakaka

  5. The Atheist needs to make up his mind. Today's so-called Western democracy and ideals are based on Judeo-Christian beliefs of justice and fair play. Of course, for those not so backward, will understand the influences of modernism & post-modernism on Western culture (which should be differentiate from the philosophy of democracy).

    Although democratic ideas originated from the Greek philosophers but were later developed by groups such as the Calvinist. The foundation of today's Western education is based on Judeo-Christian enquiry.

    Therefore, this very "ideal" is totally abhorred by modern religionist which most current example is ISIS. In a theocracy, there is no place for secular governance, let alone rulers since only the elite clergy have the divine mandate.

    Even the Atheist's favorite PAS scholar, Dr. Bari states that only God is infallible, not the rulers and the ultimate rule of man is a divine appointment (our rendering). If that is the case, then his argument is self-defeating. The ulama then by nature being mortal are also fallible. Thus, making man, waiting to hear the existential edict and command of the divine at every juncture of daily life.

    In short, the latest postings by ang moh kia are most relevant because there is a fine thread between good governance, spirituality and the process of thinking. If PAS wants to walk the spiritual road, then worldly & secular pursues are against its own cause.

    1. there's nothing fair nor democratic about Judaism - just read the Old Testament and realize it's a ketuanan religion.

      see my posts:

  6. DAPsters also 'shall' know also MALAYSIA IS NOT A SECULAR COUNTRY.

  7. A powerful group of ulama i.e. the religiously learned has taken over PAS (and perhaps Islam in Malaysia)? What are the characteristics of a priesthood caste system? Please define.

    I do not know whether you are referring to the Shia or the Sunni or to both? As you know, there is a distinct difference between the two. From my reading, your write is more relevant to the Shia because the term Priest/Cleric/Clergy is more of Shia terminology rather than the Sunni.

    Harun Din, Hadi Awang and Nik Aziz give no room for dissent? PAS members cannot disagree with them? In the unlikely event they disagree then they are kafirs? I have to disagree because I have not seen or heard anything like that from any of them. Indeed, I did not see anything wrong with PAS in handling this MB issue either. I have already stated my reasons in your earlier posts.

    BTW, when any of them speaks I would suggest that you try to identify the three main things; whether it is (i) God’s decree, or (ii) a juristic opinion, or (iii) a political wish. You know that juristic opinion (fatwa) is not and cannot be a political wish. God’s decree is binding on Muslim. The other two are NOT binding on Muslim; thus one can argue, can agree or disagree. But throw away (ii) and (iii), will they still be considered as a member of a priesthood caste system?

    On theocracy, from my training, a theocratic state like the Islamic State of Iran has been ruled out as undesirable by all Sunni scholars. The Sunnis are believers in the politics of consensus (ijmak) and consultation (shura), with the Quran, Sunnah and Hadith as their guide. Most importantly, the Sunnis do not believe in revolutionary upheaval.

    OTH, Shia clerics BELIEVE that it is justified by divine sanctions to usher in a revolution and they BELIEVE that the Iranian revolutionary power and violence should be exported to all other Muslim countries in the world; and that all Muslims should be under the one Islamic state and under one Cleric; and perhaps Iran as the centre of Islam.

    But we have already banned Shia, haven’t we? I would say in the Sunni world there is absolutely no place for a cleric (as an example, like Imam Khomeni who cannot be criticised) in Islam.

    Now, about collecting money for one Malaysian fighter (a sacked PAS member) who died in the Middle East, honestly speaking, I do not see anything wrong with that. For his family, why not? But whether he died a syahid, only God can tell.

    BTW, did this blog utter sympathy for the 2100 dead Palestinians in the last Gaza war? Can you tell me for how long the ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Bosnia did go on? But when there is ethnic cleansing of the Christians and Yazidis in Iraq, and the murder of American hostages in Syria, it brought an almost immediate response: Isis was immediately bombed! OK lah… justified and granted.

    Now, what did the governments of the Islamic world do to stop the genocide of Muslims that the West purposefully refused to prevent? Wasn’t the individual Muslim who was prepared to fight for his Muslim brothers and sisters? Odd isn’t it? Nonetheless, as I have already written earlier that I do not support Isis or any of its activities. I would not endow any Muslim with the right to murder anybody in the name of Islamic justice.

    Just recently too, when asked by a PAS member about hudud, Hadi said (not verbatim) “kita ada perlembagaan, oleh itu kita perlu mematuhi apa yang sedia termaktub di dalam perlembagaan sebelum kita melaksanakan hudud”. Can we say Hadi is a dictator?

    I am just curious, in this country do we seriously think that there is no foreign infiltration to make a mumbo-jumbo of the Malay race and Islam? Colonialism has many such snakes. Believe me dear KT, this will go on and on. It has no end. The preconceptions on a Muslim/Melayu would remain unchanged even if he/she drinks brandy and whisky and even if he/she ridicules the non-Western cultures and history. What the heck! Wakakaka…

    - hasan

    1. I'm utterly surprise and quite hurt to have you ask "BTW, did this blog utter sympathy for the 2100 dead Palestinians in the last Gaza war?"

      KTemocKonsiders and my original (then shared) BolehTalk are known as pro Palestinian cause

    2. I am sorry for my errant fingers and incompetent mind. I withdraw that statement ""BTW, did this blog utter sympathy for the 2100 dead Palestinians in the last Gaza war?".

      - hasan

    3. no worries hasan, though I do already have enough trouble from pro Zionist people like Major Swami (wakakaka he's an old sparring buddy from the Rangers), Miss Muffet (wakakaka, yes, she's or once was very pro Israel), and many others

    4. Sucker,

      U should watch the BBC doco; The man who crossed Hilter, to know about this political double-play farce.

      Hadi, & to certain extent, PAS, is showing all the symptoms of what Hiltler did, during the infamous Felseneck Trial of 1932 (ever heard about it???), when interrogated by Hans Litten.

      Perhaps, I'm giving too much credit to this ulama-turned politician wannabe & a back-stapping Islamic outpost.

      But, evil trace is UNIVERSAL. It doesnt distinguish by race, religion & class.

      It's just what bad human does, comprehendi????

    5. Hilter? Hiltler? Do you mean Adolf Hitler? Wakakaka...

      You should watch Twelve Angry Man... then you would comprehendi... wakakaka

      - hasan

    6. KTemoc : "Miss Muffet (wakakaka, yes, she's or once was very pro Israel), ..... "

      Red Alert flashing !!! "Un"common sense must ask - How could a person who once held very firm views on something suddenly make an about-turn and now adopt an opposite view? This suggests very strongly that such a person has been "Bought over, bought over, bought over !!!" A mercenary, mercenary, mercenary !!! :-)

  8. Real suker pula!

    How to compare a melodrama with a factual historical fact? Ooop, perhaps u dont understand what a doco is!

    If u dont know about the Felseneck Trial of 1932, said lah.

    Ta'da malu, google sahja, baru tau apa political double talk tu!

    One more thingy, 12 angry men, truly reflected many of the blur-sotongs out there, to be manipulated by people like Hiltler.

    Obviously u r just one of the many pseudo-intellects, that r dying to make a 2 sen worth of fame, quoting yr religion, so as to be 'ultilised' by people like Hadi!

    Indeed, birds of the same feather flop, together. R u a misogynist, like most of the ulama?

    One more thing, have u paid for yr wakakaking lesson from KT yet?

    Yrs r just sound so hollow & imitating, so much so that every of yr sentence must be ended with that wakakak to prove yr 'no' point!

    Memang tin kosong! Jadi copycat pun mesti ada gaya lah!

    1. Hello Kawan… aduhai.. aku sedih lah. Sampainya hati kau panggil aku fucker, sucker, pseudo-intellect, tin kosong, copycat, dan sebagainya. Tetapi.. itu semua tidak mengapa. Ada kemungkinan kau memang betul. Aku terpaksa lah menerima semua sumpah seranah kau itu.

      Namun begitu Kawan, aku merasa sangat hairan… Kenapa lah kau ni bebal, bodoh dan bahlol sangat. Kalau kau dah tahu aku ini tin kosong kenapa lah kau pergi gendang tin itu? Bukan kau tak tahu yang empty cans make the most noise. Nasib baik lah Kawan oi… telinga kau tu tak pekak. Cuma berdarah ckit aje. Kau sepatutnya bersyukur.

      Kawan…Kau ni kan memang sahih bebal, bodoh dan bahlol. Kau tak tahu ke di dalam ketawa (wakakaka) itu ada sendiran atau ada makna yang tersirat. Oleh begitu kau kena baca apa yang tersurat (on the line) dan juga apa yang tersirat (in between the line). -:D

      - hasan

    2. U give yrself too much credit - typical bodoh sombong (hehehe.. another label for u to dream)!

      Don't syok-sendiri so fast! What I wrote isn't for u to understand & digest, if u followed that.

      I wrote for all those who happen to read this blog, while u lay waste to that free commodity any Tom, Dick & Harry trying hard to claim ownership.

      So don't flater yrself - u r just what u r, as labelled!

      So, do read between the lines before u reply. Otherwise u might claim the title of that saying of;

      Better remaihs silent, rather than open yr mouth (pen yr thought) for the world to confirm what an idiot u actually r.

      Once again, I demand my seed
      money back for spoon-feeding goon like u!

      I don't have friend like u. So, DONT kawan me, tau ta?

  9. In the end, we don't need religious parties, full stop. PAS is both an embarrassment to a rational society and a real threat to people who want to use reason and compassion to run a society, not relying on an ancient book or bearded old men to spew forth commandments.

    LGBT rights, freedom of faith, freedom from religion, equality among all races under a PAS government? That's more likely to happen under UMNO, a pit of treacherous snakes that is, but still a party focused on winning and making tons of money on the side. The "moderate" Malay Muslim majority has plenty leaning to the left but they can't make their views known because of the firestorm of religious condemnation that would follow.