Saturday, October 25, 2014

As dogs ate Jezebel

Malaysiakini - Daily death threat avalanche hits Syed Azmi

Organiser of the ‘I want to touch a dog’ event Syed Azmi Alhabshi has been drowning under thousands of death threats and other hateful messages within hours for holding the controversial event, according to his lawyer, Syahredzan Johan.

“He has been getting severe death threats. It is on his WhatsApp, on his phone, on his Facebook, everywhere…

"Just to give a brief (illustration), I was with him yesterday. Just in a few hours, on hisWhatsApp unread messages, there were about 1,000, nearly 2,000 (messages),” Syahredzan (right in photo) said during a press conference today.

They range from threats to break his neck to killing him on sight on the streets, Syahredzan said, and his co-organisers of the event are “extremely concerned” for his safety.

This is Malaysia in the 21st Century, where you can threaten to kill someone you disagree with or whose actions you disagree with. Maybe that's why we have adopted the national slogan of Malaysia Boleh, where we can (depending on whose side you're with/on) with impunity boleh every bloody conceivable actions.

Though there is nothing in the Quran about the uncleanliness of dogs, some Islamic school of jurisprudence (madhhab) like Syafi'i, as practiced in Malaysia, has instructed that the dog is an unclean animal. But another madhhab, Maliki, says dogs are not unclean.

What it tells us about the difference between the teachings of Syafi'i and Maliki is that it's a sectarian issue, and not that of God.

Though Dr Mohd Asri Zainul Abidin has informed us that Muslims should be at liberty to adopt the teachings of any Sunni Madhhab, the Malaysian religious authority has declared that the Syafi'i teachings MUST be observed. 

Now, would this be what (as reported by TMI) Kassim Ahmad had said about the ulama 'priesthood caste', where according to him, the ulama have become 'dictators' of the Muslim's understanding of Islam. He stated: "This class of priests control the interpretation of religion to the masses. They are dictators. There is no freedom."

Nonetheless, it seems that for quite a few in Malaysia it's worth killing someone over the issue of 'touching' a dog. I wonder whether it has given foreigners the sad impression that for us, corruption, crimes and injustice can wait while we deal with the far more critical issue of Muslims touching an unclean creature.

And that's what PAS' Khalid Samad has just said, as reported by the Malay Mail Online, that (extracts): 

The collective outrage among Muslims in the country over the recent “I Want to Touch a Dog” event only proves that many do not understand their own faith.

... the events suggest the education system has failed to prepare Muslims for the realities of life in a plural society where dogs exist, a situation not helped when the leaders themselves are unclear about Islam’s guiding principles.

Training his sights on the federal government’s revenue from gambling activities and alcohol sales, Khalid said it is symptomatic of ignorance among the faithful as to what is “halal” and “haram”.

He noted that Putrajaya has continued to ignore proposals mooted in Parliament for revenue from gambling and alcohol to be placed under a special fund to be used for infrastructure development, to avoid paying civil servants using money that is “unclean” or not “halal” — a system that is currently used by the opposition-run Kelantan government.

“So when sensitivities to matters that are dirty and ‘najis’ (filth) are not institutionalised and simply disregarded, why the surprise when Malay Muslims hug dogs? Or take bribes? They do not see such sensitivities in their daily lives and the country’s administration,” Khalid said in his latest posting on his blog,

“But what is strange is that those who are making noise about this programme are not making noise about other ‘najis’ that is being done out in the open,” ...

Leaving above mentioned hypocrisy aside, I did a wee bit of reading on my fave book, the Old Testament, wakakaka.

I note that the Israelites and their Judean descendants considered dogs as unclean, but because the creatures fed on human corpses which were left lying around, or licked up human blood split on the ground.

Anyone who belongs to Jeroboam and dies in the city, the dogs will eat, and anyone who dies in the field, the birds of the sky will eat, for the LORD has said it!   [1 Kings 14:11]

Doesn't the above also make birds like merpati and merbok unclean a la what's good for the goose should be also for the gander?

Tell him, "This is what the LORD says: Have you murdered and also taken possession?" Then tell him, "This is what the LORD says: In the place where the dogs licked Naboth's blood, the dogs will also lick your blood!"   [1 Kings 21:19]

The dogs will eat Jezebel in the plot of land at Jezreel: He who belongs to Ahab and dies in the city, the dogs will eat, and he who dies in the field, the birds of the sky will eat.   [1 Kings 21:23-24]

Hmm, those unclean birds again!

Incidentally, on Jezebel the Old Testament had always been biased against women since Genesis (in the Garden of Eden), which is hardly surprising when we know it was written by a bunch of misogynistic priests.

Eve, Tamar (who was bonked and made pregnant by her father-in-law Judah, the ancestor of all Judeans/Jews), Bathsheba, Jezebel and various other biblical women were always blamed for the sins of men, wakakaka.

Mary Magdalene, Yehoshua's partner or more likely wife, was described as a prostitute (harlot). New archaeological discoveries have found that she was Yehoshua's brightest disciple.

The biblical account of good old Rover seems to be quite different from the story behind Jews not eating pork - see my post Why Orthodox Jews don't eat pork! Note that I mentioned 'orthodox Jews' which means some modern or liberal Jews do eat pork.

I had initially wondered whether the dog thingy in the Old Testament might have something to do with the Egyptian god Anpu, who's better known to us as Anubis, wakakaka. Among ancient Egyptian gods, Anpu has a very very ancient pedigree (more than 5,000 years ago).

I observe that Muslims from yonder days had followed or adopted many Jewish practices. I wonder whether that had been a consequence of coincidences or religious adherence by the Muslims of the Jewish religious observances?

Examples of notable similarities have been:

^*#:" - ancient Egyptian for 'Ouch'

  • circumcision (from Egyptian to Israelites to Muslims)
  • pork etc are haram (also from Egyptian to Israelites to Muslims)
  • wearing of haji cap (Jewish yarmulke)
  • praying in direction towards the respective Holy City (Jerusalem and Mecca)

Mind, Jews use wine in some of their religious services while to Muslims, alcohol is of course haram.


  1. Malaysia is a country where the IGP, the Attorney General and the Home Affairs Minister are on record that no crime is committed where physical violence is threatened , as long as no actual violent act is carried out.

    The AG has also declined to prosecute where individuals made threats because "they were defending Islam".

    So its open season to make death threats against Syed Azmi Alhabshi , as long as they don't actually kill him. These death threateners just have to make the excuse that they are Defending Islam.

    By the way, I'm told Syed Azmi actually comes from a strongly pro-UMNO family, even though he is personally not involved in politics.

    The system is coming back to bite one of its own....

  2. i believe most human r product of the environment. changes can only take place when the larger group agree or consent to the changes. my family attend buddhism class, i dun. i often debate with them when i found some of their view close to the brink of confusion, i realised i could hardly convince them, my family, bec they think i am a deviant in buddhism belief, though being a father n husband. fact is i rarely follow what the book or sifu say. thus what make us, the non muslim think, no matter how great is our knowledge pertaining to religion, that we could tell the believer what is right or wrong? and the result is always the opposite, the liberal retreat in the end bec they share the kafir viewpoint? just saying.

    1. "a deviant in buddhism"? wakakaka, though in reality there's no such thing.

      Either one is a true Buddhist or one is not a Buddhist. No one can make you a Buddhist, not even the monks, because there's no such thing as conversion or baptism in Buddhism; there's only one way of becoming a Buddhist and that is by DOING what what Buddhism teaches its followers, in other words, must practice (not merely believe in) being a Buddhist even if one is not perfect or not doing those practices perfectly - that's what is mean by being a TRUE Buddhist. I know 'coz some of my family members are really making efforts in their Buddhist practices (eg. charity, compassion, restraint (don't talk bad stuff, gossip, wakakaka, fasting one a week), meditation (to calm passion and excitement), no killing, etc). Others are Christians, Taoists, Confucianists, etc, Atheists wakakaka

    2. thanks, but i personally think buddhism is abt enlightenment, otherwise the practice is quite meaningless (but of course better than no practice).

      the best thing abt chinese religion is we dun have guide or formula to tell what is right or wrong, even there is, we have the choice to follow or not to. y cant we lets others to practice what they wish instead of telling them what is right or wrong? in fact the chinese belief system have much absurdity, which i now think is one of the funniest and best thing happen to the chinese.

    3. Quote :

      “To criticize a person for their race is manifestly irrational and ridiculous, but to criticize their religion, that is a right. That is a freedom.

      The freedom to criticize ideas, any ideas - even if they are sincerely held beliefs - is one of the fundamental freedoms of society. A law which attempts to say you can criticise and ridicule ideas as long as they are not religious ideas is a very peculiar law indeed."

    4. oh dear oh dearier me, HY, and how does one reach enlightenment? wakakaka. Buddhists do it by following the Noble Eightfold Path, which are:

      1 Right view
      2. Right intention
      3. Right speech
      4. Right action
      5. Right livelihood
      6. Right effort
      7. Right mindfulness
      8. Right concentration

      Compare these to what I had casually mentioned earlier

    5. i know kt, but some chinese believe othewise.

      i prefer to follow the chinese way, or short cut. i believe/hope all r equal when come to religion. i dun think the sifu or monk know more than me on enlightenment. i appreciate their role though. i think i am the kassim ahmad type.

      anon200pm. i only sound critical to my own religion. i dun understand how criticize the religion of others could be a fundamental freedom. i believe in matter like religion, introspection is more effective. sedition act must go. but how we could achieve this if everyday someone say buddhist is xxx n jesus is zzz?

    6. If a religion enforce a religious law which advocates, for example, stoning to death an unwed single mother just because she gave birth to a baby out of wedlock, then it is a fundamental right for the civil society to criticise such a so-called godly law imposed upon the weak and hapless.

  3. It would really get interesting if somehow PDRM can track down and round up as many of the anonymous would be "assasins or enforcers " and ostensibly defenders of the faith ,put the whole lot of them in a courtroom,effectively giving them names and faces and their disgraceful 3 minutes of infamy in full media glare, Then just let the judges decide whether there is criminal intimidation with their death threats or threats to do physical harm with malicious intent.
    PDRM,,how la de?
    Do lah something to round up and calm these perps down , just takes one psychotic loony who gets carried away with their threat to do harm and they may just get serious in carrying out their threat ? What with so many crazies now, cannot take so many violent threats lightly. .As for the other Zorros of religious justice,so curious to know what they look like.

  4. When you have laws but DIFFERENT/selective (perhaps?) enforcement, there can be only one outcome as what we see now......

  5. Part 1

    As I have mentioned Syed Azmi Alhabshi had good intention. Now, we must let the PDRM to handle the death threats. What else can we do? Provide him with 24-hour bodyguards and bulletproof vest? Put this experience behind us and we move on.

    The touching of dogs as I have mentioned is still acceptable to most Muslims. Nevertheless, the cuddling and hugging of dogs by Malay Muslims (mostly with tudung) can be seen as disrespecting the teachings and doctrines of Mazhab Syafi’I which are predominantly based on the Quran, the hadith, and the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad S.A.W. (PBUH). I am pretty sure that all those who hug the dogs at the event know about this restriction/injunction on ‘najis mughalazah’, which is taught in schools.

    We have to understand and respect not only the teachings and the doctrines of all the Mazhabs, but also of other religions and beliefs. The world knows that the Muslims in Malaysia are from the Syafi’i Sect. The world would understand why the fracas. Anyway, Syed Azmi Alhabshi had already apologized. That is very noble of him. May God take care of him?

    I had the opportunity to live in China for about 4 months. I stayed with the Muslim community in China. They are from the Hanafi Sect. Some of them kept dogs in their houses. I understand well on the fiqh of Hanifi Sect, and so never did I ever say that they are wrong. OTH they also knew that I am from the Syafi’i Sect. Thus, they did keep their dogs away from me.

    You have mentioned that the Old Testament relates how Jezebel met with her gruesome death; denied burial and the flesh of her corpse eaten by stray dogs. [Re: 1 Kings 21:23; Cross Ref: 2 Kings 9:10 & 9:36)]. Perhaps, that’s why the Israelites and Judeans considered dogs as unclean animals, and which are similar to Muslims. However, this story is not narrated in the Quran.

    However, in regard to birds, in Islam, only birds of PREY, who HUNT with their talons and claws like falcon, eagle, kite, hawk, bat, etc.., are considered unclean and are haram to eat. But they are not najis or filth to touch though.

    ..... to continue in Part 2

    - hasan

  6. Part 2

    BTW, alcohol, if you don’t know, was declared haram only at the later part of Prophet Muhammad’s life. The Quran/hadith clearly forbids alcohol, and including those drinks (wine inclusive) that lead to drunkenness. [Surah Al-Baqarah 2:219 & Surah Al-Maidah 5: 90-91]

    Now, I want to draw your attention to your favourite Old Testament that has narrated a number of porno stories (which you always like to mention, wakakaka…) of earlier Prophets, whereas, the Quran did not have anything on it. For example:

    1. Judah had sexual intercourse with his daughter-in-law, Tarma. [Genesis 38:16-18].

    2. Noah drank wine and was drunken and naked in his tent. [Genesis 9:20-25].

    3. Lot had sex with his two daughters. [Genesis 19:30-38].

    4. David committed adultery with Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah. [2 Samuel 11:2-5].

    5. Solomon was a womanizer; 700 wives and 300 concubines, and that he was like his father David, who was not truly devoted to God. [1 Kings 11:1-4]

    I am just curious whether indeed those stories are true? Here below are my reasons:

    1. “How can you say, ‘We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us?’ But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie.” [Jeremiah 8:8].

    2. “Do you covet [the hope, O believers], that they would believe for you while a party of them used to hear the words of Allah and then distort the Torah after they had understood it while they were knowing?” [Surah Al-Baqarah 2:75]

    3. “So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.” [Surah Al-Baqarah 2:79]

    4. Indeed, it is WE who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, WE will be its guardian. [Surah Al-Hijr 15:9]

    I am sorry if I sound incorrect; but the Babylonians already destroyed the original Torah. Was it not Ezra who rewrote the Torah and then declared that this is the Torah of Moses? Is this because of the hostility between the Jews and the Christians, as you know they hated each other so much?

    Finally, with reference to Kassim Ahmad: I do not agree with him because as you have said he does not recognise the ulama(s), and so are you, eh meh? Wakakaka…

    These are my reasons for disagreeing with him/you? Wakakaka…

    1. “Are those who know EQUAL to those who know NOT? It is only men of understanding who will remember (i.e. get a lesson from Allah’s signs and verses.)’ [Surah Az-Zumar 39:9]

    2. Narrated by Saidina Abu Dardaa (r.a.): “… Verily the Ulama (scholars/theologians) are the heirs of the Prophets, verily the Prophets do not leave behind gold or silver (wealth), they only leave behind religious knowledge” [Abu Dawud (No. 3641), Tirmidhi (No.2682), & Ibn Maajah (No.223)].

    - hasan

    1. re your last couple of sentences, so said the ulama, wakakaka

      incidentally, biblical scholars consider the story of Lot committing incest with his daughters as a Judean fabrication to marginalize their cousins. The same scenario would eb used again when they slaughtered Saul's Tribe of Benjamin (foe of David's Tribe of Judah) following the murder of Saul and his family by the usurper David, but with the "creative" biblical scribes backdating the slaughter several decades back with a badmouthing overlay about Benjaminites

    2. Dont be too quite to point out others frauds. There r closet skeletons within yr religion too if u care to read with an open mind!

      The earlier Jews, possibly under the revision work of Ezra, who rewrote the Torah and then declared that this was the Torah of Moses, didnt do the sanitization work well. It could also be bcoz those acts would be considered 'acceptable' then under the described circumstances then.

      The early Christians who revived the compilation of the Bible, under the Council of Nicaea, didnt cover up those 'dirts'. There must be a reason. Could it be bcoz they considered the words within the holy scripture were sacred & couldnt be altered, no matter how insensitive the incidents mentioned! Yet they left out many others for them to be canonized!

      Could it be the early Muslim scholars had done a more complete job of sanitation with their words, & removed all mentioned incidents of horrendous acts? If that's the case, then they were not doing a good job too. If one look hard enough, one would find many similar 'distasteful' acts, such as the pedophilic part, described within their holy Quran.

      Bearing in mind that, ALL these 3 religions shares a common foundation in the Abrahamic faith. They also described many common themes within their respective sacred scriptures. There were many discrepancies too.

      BTW, all these works were done/written AFTER the mentioned prophets had passed on, hundreds if no thousands of years later. The authenticity of the authors is still in question till this days.

      Whose version is the right one is an OPEN question that involves unquestionable faith under the respective doctrine.

      Remember that before u show yr one-upship!

    3. " At the core of ALL well-founded Belief, lies Belief that is Unfounded".....wittgenstein

  7. 1. Article 3(1): Islam is the religion of the Federation....

    about time 'mazhab syafie (malaysian version)' be added to the above. why m'sian version?, becos indonesian version is different.

    2. the 4 mazhabs claimed that their teaching, understanding & doctrine are sourced from quran & hadith & sunnah of the prophet (saw), but, wrt dogs and many other things, their understanding differ. is the quran inconsistent? incomplete? is this what they understand?

    3. can we eat fish, sotong kangkung, crabs? for they also makan bangkai.

    1. Oh no no no ! all these banyak buat konpius saya lah.....lebih baik leave all the thinking to the ulamas. If they said pray 5 times, we go 5 times. If they now said you miss 3 times berturut turut Friday prayers at mosque then kena jailtime, then we also follow. No need to think, no need for scientific studies, no need for debating and discussion, no need to explore....kan semua ada dalam koran dan hadith...who could be wiser and all-knowing than the ulamas. We all know when these ulamas die, they will automatically go to syurga and occupy first class seat next to Allah.

  8. KT 225,
    Have you immersed yourself in too many fairy tales ?

  9. Hi HY... It is lepak time.

    - hasan

  10. When people are taught to think and act like animals these are the results to be expected.With the crowd acting like animals,we have actions as what is commonly known as herd mentality.Hehehe.

  11. anti bigots fighter10:18 pm, October 26, 2014

    Fuck a dog,screw a horse,a pig and even a cat,For these very sick bastards,anything and everything goes.

    Now we even have sickos like the newly appointed PKR Sec Gen, forcing party divisions to send hundreds of busloads of PKR supporters showing up at the courthouse,demanding as a show of force and to intimidate the decision of the judges in favor of their leader Anwar.Go screw themselves and figure it out.

  12. Dog haters but ass lovers.Shoot dogs but kiss and lick asses.Poodah,you assholes.

  13. the new kampung man6:33 am, October 27, 2014

    Don't these dukuheads or dickheads have anything better to do with their miserable lives then to go chasing and fucking dogs.

  14. Only stupid maggots labelled racists and bigots would sunk this fucking low and go after dogs.If not for dogs,these suckers might even go after their offsprings.

  15. I worked with a multinational corporation in Pakistan for a few years back in the 1990's.
    It was considered a hardship posting - true and not true.. Expatriates can live well in Pakistan , all the comforts of a consumer society are available for the right price in the major cities. Yet there is no escaping the fact this was a society spiralling towards doom.

    Many of the trends which lead Pakistan towards failed-nation status are obvious in Malaysia today.
    Threats of deadly violence, actual violence made against those seen as disrespecting a very narrow and uncompromising interpretation of Islam
    Apparent legal impunity of people who make such threats.

    Increasing criminalisation of any activity seen as not in accordance with Islam, even areas which were previously considered matters of personal faith, and not for the State to interfere.

    An education system directed towards a theocracy, not producing students who can later contribute towards a modern, competitive society.

    Pakistan is in a deep hole which it is incapable of extracting itself out of.

    Malaysia is steadily digging itself into a hole, which the majority Malay Muslims seem to think it is a good idea.

    1. He he....Malay-istan here we come ! Watch out Pakistan, Afghanistan, Khazadistan and all the rest if the tan, tan, tan....we Malay-tan lebih terrer one.

      Just give us another 8 to 10 years, or 15 years at most....we will put all you guys to shame. Don't you dare look down on us just yet....just because we are in the final incubation stage....once we have become full grown, huh, siap lah one can beat us....already now we are no.1 in race superiority, we are no. 1 in having the ONLY true god, we have the no.1 education in the whole wide world ( tak percaya ? tanya lah Datuk Moo Moo ), very soon, we will have biggest islamic bank .....even IS will bite the dust compared to us, wkawka wkawka .......

  16. @ kampong lad 4:04

    Saya fikir soalan-soalan kamu itu tidak perlu dijawab untuk dipermasalahkan.

    - hasan

    1. hasan,

      'Saya fikir soalan-soalan kamu itu tidak perlu dijawab untuk dipermasalahkan'.

      kamu FIKIR (is ok as there's no law against thinking) sekiranya soalan saya dijawab akan menimbulkan masalah. to whom? i will have no problems with your jawapan/fikiran. i am not here to judge whether one is right or wrong for i just want to establish the truth.

      'O you who have believed, fear Allah and be with those who are true'. (9.119)

  17. the gaffe guy who know's10:33 am, October 27, 2014

    All this fuss is and all about dogs.Threats at human lives because of a touch a dog events.Don't these sickos have anything better to do,if not then go shiok sendiri among themselves.Or give the dogs a blow jobby.Sick bastards,very very sick bastards.

  18. Umno/BN,pls do the rakyat a favor and send Manmanlai to Sungei Buloh to spent his retirement.Then you will be doing yourselves a small favor by getting kick out of Putrajaya.

  19. @ Anonymous 8:39 am, October 27, 2014

    You wrote that: "BTW, all these works were done/written AFTER the mentioned prophets had passed on, hundreds if no thousands of years later. The authenticity of the authors is still in question till this days."

    You do have a valid point there. That the messages were put down in writing decades or even a century or two after the death of the originators of those messages does raise the very real possibility of inaccuracies, flawed memory and misquotation of the original words uttered by the long-gone holy men.

    Just take two very recent examples: The assassination of President J.F. Kennedy and the World Trade Centre attack.

    The assassination of President Kennedy happened in full view of the world and the official investigative report states that it was the work of a lone assassin. Yet a few years after that event, there were all these conspiracy theories that involve various agencies and other perpetrators!

    Similarly, with the World Trade Centre attack - everyone saw it live on TV. Yet very soon after the event, again there were all these conspiracy theories asserting the involvement of various government agencies, other parties and so forth!!

    Thus, concerning all those religious texts that were only written down decades or hundreds of years after the fact ..... it's only natural for people to have doubts about the complete and unimpeachable accuracy of those writings.

    Another consideration to bear in mind is that the putting down in writing of those long dead holy men's words took place a thousand or more years ago. That is to say, at a time when there is a dearth of scientific knowledge, and at a time when people were full of superstitions and subscribed to all kinds of supernatural beliefs. When people heard thunder they attributed it to a giant or a God up there in the sky stomping around angrily and they would fearfully offer food/prayers in order to propitiate the wrathful god, etc! Therefore, it is not at all inconceivable that the writers of holy/religious texts might include various supernatural, incredible elements into their narratives. The Old Testament of the Bible is full of such stories - people marched around a fortress and blew trumpets and lo and behold the walls of the fortress came crashing down! A man successfully fought off an army of well-armed men with nothing more than the jaw bone of an ass. A man got swallowed by a whale and lived in the whale's stomach for goodness knows how long and then emerged obviously unscathed and started preaching!! Can you believe all that ?!

    1. Fiction ! Fiction ! Fiction !

    2. cave-dweller within a self-dug hole under the tempurung!!!

  20. the gaffe guy who know's11:30 am, October 27, 2014

    Kaytee,how come no one from the Umno/BN or PR leadership came out to defend the dogs or the organiser of the touch the dog event,whose life was threatened by bigots..And the organiser was a Malay Muslim who was forced to beg for forgiveness from bigots,out of fear of his life..Our screaming politicians from both sides of the divide have lost their small pea size balls.These cowardly politicians are the ones to be fucked by the dogs.

    1. Nurul Izzah helped promote the event, and congratulated the organisers on Twitter the day after.

      Anwar has indirectly come out stating there are many far more important issue the country has to face than arguments about tourching dogs.

  21. There are Buddhist extremists as well.
    Sri Lanka has 70% Buddhist population, but the country is officially secular.
    As the civil war ground on for decades, the government has increasingly linked up with Buddhist groups which have been pushing for restrictions against Hindus and Muslims, as they are somehow considered disloyal.

    The Bodu Bala Sena or BBS has campaigned for Hindus and Muslims to be barred from sensitive government and armed forces positions, and priority given to Buddhist Singhalese. The school system would teach Buddhist values and highlight Buddhism's core role in the country's identity.

    1. you're quite correct that there have been extremists in Sri Lanka and even in Myanmar, but they're respectively Sri Lankan (Singhalese) and Myanmarese (Burmese) nationals, not so much Buddhists. They may call themselves Buddhists but that doesn't they are! wakakaka

      Indeed it'll be an oxymoron to say Buddhist extremists because the religion of peace and compassion is also known as the Middle Way. A so-called Buddhist behaving badly doesn't mean he's a Buddhist extremist but just an extremist (Burmese, Sri Lankan, etc).

      Unlike the Abrahamic religions, Buddhism does not have significant warfare in its history nor does it have a record of violent proselytization. In fact it cannot proselytize - there's no conversion nor baptism in Buddhism. Not even a monk can convert anyone to Buddhism. Only the person which wants to be a Buddhist must do so him/herself by PRACTICING (not just believing) the Buddhist way. Thus, non Buddhists like Muslims, Christians, Hindus are 101% safe from any Buddhist encroachment or proselytizing as these don't and cannot exist.

    2. They are Buddhist extremists because they are promoting violence, oppression and discrimination in the name of their religious beliefs, and against those who profess other religions.

      These are not simply nationalist extremists who just by-the-way happen to be Buddhists.

      I'm just applying the same standards that much of the world media uses when they talk about Islamists extremists.

      Forcing schools in a supposedly secular nation to teach Buddhist religious mores to pupils of all religions, and exaggerating Buddhism's role in the country above all other religions .....isn't that amounting to proselytization ?

      I'm sure non-Muslim groups would be the first to scream "Islamic proselytization" If equivalent actions were taken promoting Islam by authorities in Malaysia...

    3. In Buddhism there's no apostasy, heresy, concepts of haram & najlis, hudud (punishment such as execution, flogging, etc), legal system-punishment for the laymen, conversion, baptism, aspects which the Abrahamic religions have, either at one stage or even currently. The Buddhist monks cannot issue fatwas and such-likes. I rest my case, wakakaka.

    4. Buddhism is basically open to anyone who wishes to follow the Five Precepts and the Eightfold Path.

      However, most organised Buddhist traditions have an initiation rite to symbolise one's acceptance of the Buddhist way.

      In an approximate way, its equivalent to Baptism in Christianity, or reciting the Shahada in Islam.

    5. have many Buddhists in my family (Grandma, Dad, Mum, sis, a few uncles, aunties, cousins, neighbours, etc) - my Dad (when alive) was a leading member fo his Buddhist Association - have never heard of or come across such - must be one of those modern (Westernized?) sects

    6. One may or may not be a Buddhist, but who can can escape karma ?

  22. @ kampong lad 1:10

    My exposition would only lead to refutations that in turn would lead to counter-refutations that would go on and on until I give way to the mutual thoughts of yours and the galaxy of thinkers and polymaths, which are in sheer numbers here, whom I think are not interested in mutual learning and understanding, and/or establishing the truth?

    In Islam, there are haram, halal, makruh, and the obligatory wajib and sunat. Just take your pick lah. After all we all are allowed to look after our own fate in the hereafter. Wakakaka…


    1. What mutual learning u r talking about?

      'My exposition would only lead to refutations that in turn would lead to counter-refutations'

      Isnt this HOW discourse lead to understanding?

      Tell the truth, u r in self-denial due to yr archaic conformist stand in the Islamic evolution!

      All u r interested IS to maintain a group of blur-sotongs, bends to yr self-proclaimed mind control using the pseudo-teaching of hadiths & sunnahs.

      Understand this;

      "Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognise that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbour any doubt.

      The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." 6:114-115

      On the other hand, false believers are not satisfied with the Quran being the only source of law, thus they seek other sources:

      "This is to let the minds of those who do not believe in the Hereafter listen to such fabrications, and accept them, and thus expose their real convictions." 6:113

      The books of hadith report the Prophet prohibiting the writing of his hadith and that his followers should not write anything from him other than the Quran! It is also documented that the Prophet maintained his stand until death.

      "Do not write anything from me except Quran. Anyone who wrote anything other than the Quran shall erase it." [Ahmed, Vol. 1, Page 171, and Sahih Moslim, Zuhd, Book 42, Number 7147]

      So kampong lad, it's to yr true religion duty to be inquisitive & find the truth path.

      In Islam there is ONLY one way - the Quranic way. There is NO picking if u r a true ummat Islam. period

    2. “In Islam there is ONLY one way - the Quranic way. There is NO picking if u r a true ummat Islam.”

      My question: To whom did Allah reveal the Quran? Who knows the Quran better than Muhammad? You?

      1. Narrated Abu Huraira:

      Allah's Apostle said, "All my followers will enter Paradise except those who refuse." They said, "O Allah's Apostle! Who will refuse?" He said, "Whoever obeys me will enter Paradise, and whoever disobeys me is the one who refuses (to enter it). [Sahih Bukhari 9:384- O.B]

      2. Narrated Jabir bin `Abdullah:

      Some angels came to the Prophet while he was sleeping. Some of them said, "He is sleeping." Others said, "His eyes are sleeping but his heart is awake." Then they said, "There is an example for this companion of yours." One of them said, "Then set forth an example for him." Some of them said, "He is sleeping." The others said, "His eyes are sleeping but his heart is awake." Then they said, "His example is that of a man who has built a house and then offered therein a banquet and sent an inviter (messenger) to invite the people. So whoever accepted the invitation of the inviter, entered the house and ate of the banquet, and whoever did not accept the invitation of the inviter, did not enter the house, nor did he eat of the banquet." Then the angels said, "Interpret this example to him so that he may understand it." Some of them said, "He is sleeping.'' The others said, "His eyes are sleeping but his heart is awake." And then they said, "The houses stands for Paradise and the call maker is Muhammad; and whoever obeys Muhammad, obeys Allah; and whoever disobeys Muhammad, disobeys Allah. Muhammad separated the people (i.e., through his message, the good is distinguished from the bad, and the believers from the disbelievers). [Sahih Bukhari 9:385 – O.B]

      Anon 8:22, as you have said before; don’t waste your CPU time lah.
      Wakakaka… PERIOD!

      - hasan

    3. hasan,

      'After all we all are ALLOWED to look after our own fate in the hereafter'

      yes. i agree with you 101%. tapi kenapa sibuk2 menghukum mereka yg berbuat dosa? allah swt sahaja yg boleh hukum & juga ampun. that's his POWER which is never delegated to mortals like us. (di indonesia kecuali aceh, tidak ada geng2 penyibuk, mat skodeng & what have you - mazhab syafie jugak).

      'Some angels came to the Prophet while he was sleeping'

      phew, siapa pernah nampak malaikat, jin, iblis & syaitan? nampak & boleh dengar lagi wei!. bolehkah kita lihat angin, x-ray, ultrasound & other creatures/creations which are of different forms but exist?

      'whoever obeys muhammad, indeed obeys allah'

      very true becos the deeds and sayings of the prophet were in accordance with the quran. he never changed allah's words as commanded and neither did he add nor invent. cheers!

    4. the above are hadiths i.e the sayings of prophet muhammad. prophet muhammad can see jin, satan, and angels, he can see malaikaat jibrail and talk to him. hasan is spot on when he said that you will refute whatever he said. i think you are not a muslim and that is why you can never accept his exposition or explanation.

    5. anon 9.21 pm oct 28.

      'prophet muhammad can see jin, satan, and angels, he can see malaikaat jibrail and talk to him'

      that's what you had been told. (terima bulat2). am not refuting his explanation & yours as well, not convincing la. let's see what allah (swt) said thru his messenger's tounge.

      "O Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you as he caused your (first) parents to go forth from the Garden and tore off from them their robe (of innocence) that he might manifest their shame to them. Lo! HE SEETH YOU, he and his tribe, from whence YE SEE HIM NOT. Lo! We have made the devils protecting friends for those who believe not." Al-Araf (7:16-17)

      so, the prophet was just like us, the sons of adam.

      'i think you are not a muslim'

      i don't care what you think about me. (tak boleh jawab, jatuh hukum. itu saja yg tau.) 'awalludin makrifatullah'.

    6. @ kampong lad 9:23

      I am of the opinion that your reasoning is incorrect.

      The second Pillar of Iman (Rukun Iman) is the belief in Allah’s angels. The angels are messengers of Allah.

      In surah An-Najam 53 verses 1-18 (53:1-18) you can read about Muhammad seeing Archangel Gabriel.

      - hasan

    7. hasan,

      'belief in Allah’s angels' - what do you understand from my earlier statement or question viz, "bolehkah kita lihat angin, x-ray, ultrasound & other creatures/creations which are of different forms but EXIST? inspiration does exist, but can we see it?

      'surah An-Najam 53 verses 1-18 (53:1-18)'


  23. kampong lad,

    You said:

    1. "phew, siapa pernah nampak malaikat, jin, iblis & syaitan?"

    2. "that's what you had been told. (terima bulat2)."

    3. "(tak boleh jawab, jatuh hukum. itu saja yg tau.)"

    Here below is from Surah An-Najam 53:1-18; yang saya faham dan boleh diterima oleh akal saya berasaskan kepada Al-Quran dan Rukun Iman yang Kedua i.e. 'belief in Allah’s angels'.

    Allah swears by the star when it descends. Muhammad did not deviate from the path of guidance and truth, and remain steadfast in the truth. His speech comes not from his desire and lust, but is a revelation from God, taught to Muhammad by the Angel who is very strong, intelligent and understanding; who appeared to Muhammad in the original form; while he was on the far horizon, he approached and came closer again; he was so close to Muhammad by the length of two bows or even closer. Then, he revealed to his servant Muhammad what was revealed through the Angel. His heart did not deny what he saw. So, what are you to dispute Muhammad’s revelation of what he has seen and witnessed? And indeed he saw him at any other time, at the Sidratul Muntaha, above the seventh heaven. Nearby there is paradise, a place that has been promised to the righteous. Indeed, he saw some signs of God's power and majesty of his greatest.

    - hasan

  24. anon 11.14am

    'Deaf, dumb and blind; and they return not' (2.18)

    are they physically hadicapped?

  25. @ kampong lad 1:32pm

    One must read Surah Al-Baqarah 2:17, 2:18, 2:19, and 2:20 together, in order to get the complete message and the correct meaning of 2:18.

    In a nutshell 2:17-20 says: “Typical hypocrites are truly did not have a strong stance. They cannot take advantage of any leads because their hearing, speaking, and sighting cannot accept the truth. It is like someone lighting a fire in the darkness, but yet could not take advantage of the light; or as some people who are stuck in the wilderness in the dark and the rain - they wanted to step forward with the flash of the lightning, but in vain as it was just a momentary flash”.


  26. anon 3.37pm

    mortals like us are not able to SEE the invisible creatures/creations though they exist. yes, the prophet did SEE the angel but he did not see it thru his eyes. one is deaf or blind, doesn't mean he cannot hear or see. that's my point. with respect, i withdraw from this healthy and interesting debate. may the Almighty bless us all. salam.

    1. kampong lad 9.47pm

      That's just the way it is.

      It is a healthy and interesting debate, indeed. Perhaps, we should meet up one day. The gado-gado at The Loaf Avenue K is awesome. For RM6 - it is a steal. Salam.

      - hasan