Monday, December 15, 2014

Can Sarawak's Christian god migrate to Peninsula?

Malay Mail Online - Are we immigrants or citizens? East Malaysian Christians ask amid differing rules on Bibles



KUALA LUMPUR, Dec 13 — Bumiputra Christians living in peninsular Malaysia are feeling hard done by, as some of the rights they always had in Sabah and Sarawak have suddenly disappeared down the alleyways of regional rule-making.

Ending a standoff that started in January, Islamic religious authorities in Selangor recently returned over 300 Bibles they had seized but only after marking them in red with a warning against use in the state because the books refer to God by the Arabic word “Allah.”

That would not have happened in Sabah or Sarawak.

Although the Bibles were not meant to be used in Selangor, the situation has left many East Malaysian Christians feeling a little uneasy that the certainties of their home states are worth less across the South China Sea.

Forty something Sarawakian Oswald Bindin described the rules as problematic, forcing him to reflect on questions of identity, origin and citizenship after making Selangor his home for 22 years.

“We see a double standard. For example, I’m from Sarawak and there is no restriction there. I want to ask, what is my status now that I’m in the peninsula?

“I want to ask, am I an immigrant or am I a citizen, this is a question I want to ask, this is important,” the practising Iban Catholic told Malay Mail Online in Malay.

Malaysians “don’t have a choice” and are “ forced to follow” whatever the government, or the people in power decide, he added.


Oswald Bindin asked a very pertinent question on citizenship, where he felt (presumably still does) that the Selangor State prohibition on the use of the word 'Allah' for the Christian god has put a question mark over his citizenship as a Malaysian.

I have a lot to say, especially about citizens and migration*, and as a start I want to point out two things, namely:

[* immigration refers to relocation to a country, while migration refers to the movement from one region to another - either within a country or across national borders - from website http://www.diffen.com/]

(a) why should the prohibition raise questions on Oswald Bindin's citizenship because it is directed at all in Selangor, not just immigrants or migrants; Selangoreans of Peninsula extract have to comply as well.

Unlike Binin, his fellow Iban Matthew Jambon has not been ridiculously preposterous or merajuk-ish in his personal dissatisfaction but in fact very constructive-minded. Jambon has lived in Selangor for the past 19 years, and as quoted by TMI, said he accepts the rules here (ie. in Selangor) but insisted that it will not change the way he practises his faith.

“It’s alright, since we live in Selangor, we will just adhere to the rules in Selangor. If we are in Sarawak, we will follow the rules in Sarawak."

Well said, that 'when in Rome, ... etc etc etc'.

(b) it's also known, that is written in the Constitution, that the state Sultan is the head of Islam in his state and has within his purview all matters related to Islam and Muslims, including use of the word 'Allah', as already ruled by the Malaysian courts.

As background to (b) above, I quote the TMI report which states: The controversy over non-Muslim usage of the Arabic word for God erupted in 2007 when the federal government first banned the Catholic Church from publishing the word “Allah” in the Malay section of its weekly newspaper, Herald.

The Catholic Church retaliated by filing a legal suit against the government. A lengthy legal battle followed and Malaysia’s highest court ruled last year that the paper cannot use the word “Allah” as it is not integral to Christianity.


We are talking about Peninsula in general and Selangor in particular, and the Federal Court has been spot on in stating that in (Peninsula) Malaysia "the word 'Allah' ..... is not integral to Christianity".

I know Christians reading this will be outraged by kaytee's stand, and man, do I have many staunch Christian friends. But hey, my stand on the 'Allah' word has not been new as I, a Chinese Penangite from a Buddhist-Taoist-Confucian family (with a sprinkling of family members being Christians, Hindus, Sikhs and two distant cousins married to Muslims) but personally an atheist (wakakaka) have between 2010 to 2013, very much to the chagrin of my Christian mateys, posted the following, among many others on topic: 




wakakaka.

Incidentally, Yayasan Lentera Bangsa, a publishing house in Indonesia, published a direct-translated al Kitab for Indonesian use which drops the word 'Allah' completely, and uses in place the Hebraic words Elohim and Yahweh.

I wonder whether it's this same al Kitab that was rejected by Father Lawrence Andrew of the Catholic Church and editor of its news weekly The Herald four years ago?


In case you do not know who is Father Lawrence Andrew, just read through my 3 posts above, wakakaka. He's the bloke who started the furor over the use of the 'Allah' word by Christians to refer to their god in Malay language church services and documents.

Okay, it doesn't matter whether it was the al Kitab offered by Yayasan Lentera Bangsa or not, Father Andrew told AFP in April 2009 about the release of a new Malay language bible that does not use the word ‘Allah’. The news item was picked up by the Free Republic, a conservative American online news portal.

The new al Kitab or Malay-language Bible had referred to God as ‘Elohim’ rather than ‘Allah’. This displeased Father Lawrence Andrew who stated:

"The Catholic bible that the church uses has the word 'Allah' for God whereas in comparison, this one does not."

"The new Malay bible weakens the argument for using the word Allah because some groups are trying to substitute God with a foreign name, whereas Allah is the Malay word for God and has been the accepted translation for centuries."


So, according to Father Andrew, Elohim is a foreign name for God while Allah is not. I wonder where the word Allah originated from?

WHAT??! From the same region as Elohim? Surely not!

Wakakaka.

I wonder whether he would also argue that Nabi Isa (pbuh) is considered a name of foreign origin while Jesus Christ is a name in the Malay language?

But far more importantly, one just has to ask: Why consider the new Malay-language bible as ‘weakening’ the use of ‘Allah’ when it has actually reinforced reference to God’s name as per the original ‘Elohim’?

Yes, what did Father Andrew meant by that, which I believe to be a Freudian slip?

Then, who other than him says "Allah is the Malay word for God and has been the accepted translation for centuries", and who decides on "the accepted translation for centuries" and what are the criteria for that process?

Let's leave Father Lawrence Andrew to his Malay versus foreign language mulling, wakakaka, and move on to another (earlier) piece of news report, namely, TMI's Sarawak church pleads for right to use ‘Allah’ throughout Malaysia. The report stated (extract only):

A major Sarawak church has made an impassioned plea for the right to use the word “Allah” for worship throughout Malaysia, telling Datuk Seri Najib Razak that state Islamic prohibitions have taken away "the most important thing in our lives".

The Sarawak-based Borneo Evangelical Mission or the Sidang Injil Borneo (SIB) finally broke its silence over the burning issue, weeks after the Selangor Islamic authorities returned to the state churches some 300 Malay and Iban Bibles containing the word “Allah” seized in January from distributor Bible Society of Malaysia (BSM). [...]

SIB president Reverend Dr Justin Wan said in a statement to The Malaysian Insider ........ hundreds of Sarawak and Sabah Christian students attending universities and institutes of higher learning in the peninsula, saying "the majority of whom were educated completely in the Bahasa Malaysia medium, the product of the National Education Policy and with little exposure to English."

"These students would only be comfortable worshipping in Bahasa Malaysia," he said, adding that many Sarawak and Sabah Christians educated in Bahasa Malaysia have flocked to and settled in the Klang Valley and other parts of the peninsula for better prospects in life but use "Allah" in their worship, similar to their parents and ancestors.

"And naturally, they will continue to do so in Semenanjung Malaysia. Therefore, even if the prohibition were to apply only to the states in Semenanjung Malaysia and not to Sabah and Sarawak, the high mobility of people between Sabah, Sarawak and the peninsula makes observance difficult, particularly for our members.

"This will have the overall effect of harming national integration and destroying all efforts at realising the country's 1Malaysia vision," said Wan.


I am sure you know what 'evangelistic' means, wakakaka, and what it holds for non-Christians, wakakaka again.

But rather dwell on the churches' evangelistic nature I am more interested in Reverend Dr Justin Wan's remarks that "many Sarawak and Sabah Christians educated in Bahasa Malaysia have flocked to and settled in the Klang Valley and other parts of the peninsula for better prospects in life" and "the high mobility of people between Sabah, Sarawak and the peninsula makes observance difficult, particularly for our members."

I have many Sarawakian and Sabahan friends and always treasure their presence in Peninsula which they have every right to be in, because it's their own country, inasmuch as Malaysia is for Perakians, Kedahans, Malaccans, etc.

But I wonder whether Sarawakians and Sabahans like Oswald Bindin who has merajuk-ishly stated “We see a double standard. For example, I’m from Sarawak and there is no restriction there. I want to ask, what is my status now that I’m in the peninsula? I want to ask, am I an immigrant or am I a citizen, this is a question I want to ask, this is important,” know that Peninsula Malaysians have to have a travel document (based on KP or IC) as an alternative to the Malaysian Passport and Restricted Travel Document (in accordance with Part VII, Special Provisions For East Malaysia, Immigration Act 1959/63) to enter Sarawak and Sabah, as if they are foreigners, and worse, may even be denied entry or be deported, like Brother Haris Ibrahim, Ambiga Sreenevasan and many more.

Additionally the duration of their stay unlike that for Oswald Bindin in Selangor or any Peninsula state is limited to a maximum of 90 days, a duration I enjoy in Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, the USA, Canada etc.

Oswald Bindin, you have been welcome in Peninsula Malaysia precisely because you're a Malaysian but are you aware that your state has not only limit Peninsula Malaysians to only a maximum of 90 days stay like many foreign countries but has also banned and denied entry to many Peninsula Malaysians, so think before you talked about who's a citizen and who's an immigrant.

Indeed, think about which state is practicing double standards in its treatment of Malaysian citizens.

Di Mana Bumi Dipijak, Di Situ Langit Dijunjung is a great Malay peribahasa but it shouldn't extend to barring citizens as if they are foreigners, and on this I include Alvin Tan's case, wakakaka.

22 comments:

  1. Ktemoc,
    The Federal Court ruling applies , and applies only to the Herald, and has no bearing on any Bibles containing the word "Allah". The Court judgement made clear of that.

    In addition, the statement "the word 'Allah' ..... is not integral to Christianity". in the ruling was a gratuitous statement and had no legal standing.
    The Federal Court in Malaysia is not qualified to make any judgements on what is and isn't integral to Christianity.

    Christian religious practice , in any language, within the confines of its adherents, does not come under the purview of Islam and Muslims. If we don't defend it, that will be part of the slippery slope towards an Islamic state.

    The right of East Malaysian states to control the residence of West Malaysians there was part of the Federation agreement. If you start questioning it, the the entire Federation Agreement becomes questionable....are you sure you want to open Pandora's Box ?

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    1. Indeed you're right that "Christian religious practice , in any language, within the confines of its adherents, does not come under the purview of Islam and Muslims" but the word "Allah" does, and it's known that HRH has passed a ruling that in Selangor the word is exclusive to Muslims and non-Muslims cannot use it. Whether you want to respect that royal ruling or ignore it is left to you. As stated in my post I'm not sympathetic to the Church's stand because I see far better alternatives to its obdurate and seemingly defiant insistence.on using the Allah word.

      Secondly, I'm not so much questioning the Federation agreement where Sarawak and Sabah have autonomous control of, among many issues, immigration but more to show my annoyance at the bloke's whinging that he feels like an immigrant just because of a state ruling on the Allah word in Selangor when he has already unfettered access to and residence in Peninsula. I raise the gargantuan differences in privileges for differrent Malaysian citizens, depending on which states they originated from and how those far more "privileged" don't seem to be appreciative of their superior rights and would whinge over issues unrelated to citizenship.

      Delete
    2. KT, as far as the argument about the Christian native's usage of Allah, suffice to say that u r still as insistent as a sow on heat!

      U might used the same argument towards the Christian natives.

      But there is a difference - a simple analogy would be when yr old pals start calling u OB (old bag) instead of KT, which u have been known for as long as the friendship starts.

      The sudden change is because yr old pals r 'advised' that OB is a far better alternatives to yr obdurate and seemingly defiant insistence on using KT despite the fact that KT is long known since yr old man named u such.

      BTW, in these Allah write-ups, yr transient dislike of Christianity comes across as strong as yr known Zionist hate!

      For a declared atheist, u seem to have a very strong biased vitriolic against the 3 branches of the Abrahamic faith in the decending order of Judaism, Christianity & Islam. What takes in this Freudian slip?

      Delete
    3. the difference is that in Christianity (not Islam) the "Old Bag" has a far greater pedigree. As I have written:

      'Yahweh' is mentioned 6823 times in the Old Testament, while 'Elohim' scores 2570 times. How many times is ‘Allah’?

      In fact 'Elohim' is used 66 times in a row at the beginning of the Bible before any other Hebrew word for the English word 'God'.

      Additionally there are real Malay words like (would you believe) Tuhan and even the Indon MahaDewa and Diwarupa,

      Delete
    4. Incidentally I have nothing against the Abrahamic faiths per se but only against their priesthood caste (not all but quite a few wakakaka)

      Delete
    5. See, u still didnt get IT!

      The Allah, as a tag, has been known to the Christian natives for as long as they r been Christianized. & that goes back hundreds of years.

      Outside this bigoted land, the relevancy of that tag IS just nominal, without any cultural connotation. So yr argument is indeed purely BULLs!

      So, how to change that perception, that's been associated with yr faith for THAT long, just bcoz some misguided zealot suddenly want to monopolize the name while a larger section of their follower faith believers, outside that bigoted land, dont give a hoot about that monopolization!

      Delete
    6. Mass used to be conducted only in Latin for centuries. In what language is it conducted today? Catholics could only eat fish and non-meat on Fridays for centuries. Is this still compulsory today? Soon (and don't be surprised) Catholic priests will be allowed to marry and have wives and children as they originally were allowed (until the Church stopped that in order to prevent the assets and properties of priests going to their familieson their deaths)

      In more than one way, it's the evangelistic doctrine of the Church that's to be blame for the suspicions of the Muslims inasmuch as the evangelistic nature of the mullahs is as well to the other side.

      Delete
    7. Hey, I now proclaim chicken meat is only for the muslim and non muslim are forbidden to eat then since the nons already have their pork.

      By the Raja Tertinggi of Negeri C-lang-ko

      Delete
    8. Yes anon, there is also one person called Zhao Zhi Bao which is in hokkien it can be translated into Chao Cibai. So any chua. Ask that fella to change name.

      Like I say, violation of basic rights of man. What makes you think that kaytee to be barred from entering Malaysia because he violated the first tenet of rukun negara.

      Delete
  2. Can't you store these bibles in your mobile device?Once you had these make them personal reference.Do not show/share with non-concerned public.There are a lot you intelligent and capable to such an app.There's nothing to lose.

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  3. '...so think before you talked about who's a citizen and who's an immigrant.'

    !!!!!!!

    U shoot Oswald Bindin for his rant & with yr explain to Dayak with;

    '..I raise the gargantuan differences in privileges for differrent Malaysian citizens, depending on which states they originated from and how those far more "privileged" don't seem to be appreciative of their superior rights and would whinge over issues unrelated to citizenship.'

    So do u see the other manifestation of this ills in P M'sia?

    Let me give u something to write about.

    1) In Kelantan, non Kelates r NOT allow to own lands, even if they r Melayu.

    2) A Melayu millionaire can get a % discount for buying houses, while a Non has to pay full price, which include subsidy for that Melayu discount, to buy a low cost flat!

    3) A Non ace-ed student CANT get what he/she wants to study, plus scholarship, bcoz 1st there is a quota preference for the Melayu & 2nd the Melayus go through a 'jacked-up' entry system, disguised as the same standard as those taken by the Nons.

    4) Seed money for business r preferred to be given to Melayu half-cooked venture, if it's not hijacked idea. Nons have to depends on savings.

    There r many of these citizenship unrelated treatments within this country for all her citizen, & u want to cherry-pick on someone/something to justify a person personal faith?

    Can u cast yr view-finder wider THEN shoot?

    Otherwise, what r u?????

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    Replies
    1. of course your points 1 to 4 are issues worthy of raising vis-a-vis citizenship rights - other than issue No 1, I've raised them myself in previous posts

      But Oswald Bindin's whinging? Pordah

      Delete
  4. my dear cibai looes, I've decided not to publish your two cibai comments because you'll get me into deep shit, wakakaka, Try not to address people's gods with your vile cibai language, nor say disrespectful stuff about royalty and at the same time involved me - you can do these at your own blog wakakaka/

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  5. "immigration refers to relocation to a country, while migration refers to the movement from one region to another - either within a country or across national borders"

    KT, just curious, when states/nations do the same thing as above, what is the act called?; secession?? wakakaka...

    - hasan

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    Replies
    1. wakakaka, naughty naughty. But read my posts

      http://ktemoc.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/will-sabah-secede.html

      http://ktemoc.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/pkrs-promise-of-autonomy-to-east.html

      and

      http://ktemoc.blogspot.com.au/2013/03/malaysian-politics-deadly-game.html

      Delete
  6. I see that you are still insistent that the Malay/Iban speaking Christians should change how they address their God to pacify the Muslims. I can see that you will still be writing about this issue in the years to come as there will never be a solution until the ban is rescinded.

    It is a development that an Indonesian Alkitab version has now used Elohim and Yahweh in place of the word. It is entirely up to the Christians to decide that and not coerced by others. It would still take a few generations for those Christians concerned to get used to those terms. Meanwhile, Christians would still be using the old versions and that would still get some people's knickers in a twist. Cheers. Adam.

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    1. The Christian Church using the Allah word poses a greater potential for evangelism

      Delete
    2. Thick head, if there is indeed evangelism then NO need to distinguish with tag - Allah lah, Elohim lah etc etc...It's all in the will not twisted. Heating via confusing labelling!

      Walou eh...what potential?????

      Potential to substain a continuation of syok sendiri tokoh, right?

      Delete
    3. KT, actually I personally think that the minority Christians would have a greater potential of being evangelized instead by Muslims. Everyday, they would be "bombarded" with the Islamic God through the TV broadcasts and Mosques' call for prayers, etc.

      But the Christians are confident enough to differentiate between the terms used by the Muslims and themselves. In any case, most Christians and people would agree that the Islamic and Christian and even the Jewish God for that matter, are one and the same, with only the different views and attributes as envisaged by each one of the faiths. These 3 religions are after all called the Abrahamic faiths.

      Only when we agree to all people using the word, would we be able to reconcile every issue connected to it. If we continue to have the word banned, there will definitely be many irreconcilable catch 22 situations. Continue to think and write about it. Hopefully, one day you would be able to grasp it. Cheers. Adam.

      Delete
  7. Furthermore, it violates the basic rights of men. Hey hey hey, the is the basis of french revolution. The birth of modern athesists. Hahahaha!

    Like I say, if austrians can call one village town as Fucking, so what.......I knew kaytee would try to argue to austrians to change it to Foching........That is the pronounciation. Ah so.

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  8. Fucking, Austria.........What the fuck kaytee going to do about it?

    http://www.inquisitr.com/31093/the-town-of-fucking-austria-installs-cameras-to-catch-tourists/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85R8O9COLqo

    ReplyDelete