The issue revolves around the notorious Alvivi Duo who recently stirred steamy shit with their bah-kut-teh buka puasa provocation.
Some Chinese Malaysians in a kniasu attempt had jumped swiftly into defending the naughty duo, arguing pathetically on semantics, namely that the Chinese-Hokkien word 'bah' literally means 'meat' and should not be taken to imply 'pork' whence it could then have meant 'chicken' or even 'beef', and thus there was no insult in the duo's Facebook greetings to Muslim to buka puasa with a bowl of delicious bah-kut-teh.
One of the kniasu group had even argued that bah-kut-teh refers to the herbal ingredients rather than the meat they flavour.
That's not only kniasu attempts but arguments of pure grade bullshit, wakakaka. Incidentally on a side issue, the Ah Beng word of kniasu always reminds me of Miss Muppet, wakakaka but sorry lah, I can't tell you why, wakakaka again.
'Bah' (meat) in the context of bah-kut-teh and in many other compound words prefixed by the 'bah' word are all cooked with and consisted of mainly pork despite no 'pork' word in them, like:
Even Hokkien words suffixed with the 'bah' word, like lor-bah (deep fried 5-spice pork roll), tau-eu bah (soya stewed pork) are pork dishes.
If chicken is used, then we would get labels like the quasi-Anglicised chi-kut-teh or the Chinese kay-moi (as opposed to just bah-moi).
RPK also raised the example of char siew pau (barbecue pork dumpling) versus kai pau (chicken dumpling) - all Canto terms, thus 'kai' instead of the Hokkien word 'kay'.
There is no literal language indication of pork in the description of char siew (literal translation = skewered barbecue), but every Chinese in Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, Macau, Australia and southern China (and perhaps even elsewhere) knows the char siew dumpling is stuffed with barbecue pork.
Why then have some Chinese attempted to bullshit their way (on behalf of the Alvivi duo) through the bah-kut-teh fiasco?
If you'll allow kaytee his usual Freudian indulgence, the kniasu attitude can be traced to the traumatised (younger generation) Chinese Malaysians who want to 'strike back' at those they perceive as their arrogant oppressor.
It's not unlike the lamentable spew of anti-Muslim emails I receive almost everyday, most of which originated in the USA. Some Yanks still angry over the 9/11 incident (but ignoring their nation's despicable oppression and exploitation of many Arab countries), and probably frustrated with their nation's non-nuking of everything Arab or Muslim, gave vent to their invincible hatred for their turbaned foes through such hate emails, YouTube videos, cartoons, etc involving fabricated allegations, insults and wilful fantasies.
They seek emotional relief in their media acts of masturbation.
And that's what the younger set of Chinese (and at times, Indian) Malaysians do. You can see some Chinese (and Indian) Malaysians automatically supporting rightwing Dutch or Israeli bashing of Arabs and Muslims, without being aware that those rightwing thugs hate them (Chinese and Indians) just as much as, if not more than, the Arabs and Muslims.
Those Malaysian 'nons' seek surrogate targets for their anger at what they see as ketuanan Melayu arrogance and 'oppression', and thus would gleefully join in or support any US-European-Australian-Israeli media-bashing of Arab and Muslim.
They even revel in bullshit fantasies such as Japan not having any diplomatic relations with Muslim countries (what an ideal country for Chinese, one responsible for the Rape of Nanjing) or Robin Williams (a most liberal American) delivering a fabricated anti-Muslim warning.
Thus it's no surprise that some would automatically defend the Alvivi duo's bah-kut-teh provocation in a syiok-sendiri emotional masturbation.
But in doing so, they violated one of the traditional Chinese cautions (or advice), namely, 'don't use a long bamboo pole to knock everyone down'.
Some Chinese Malaysians in a kniasu attempt had jumped swiftly into defending the naughty duo, arguing pathetically on semantics, namely that the Chinese-Hokkien word 'bah' literally means 'meat' and should not be taken to imply 'pork' whence it could then have meant 'chicken' or even 'beef', and thus there was no insult in the duo's Facebook greetings to Muslim to buka puasa with a bowl of delicious bah-kut-teh.
One of the kniasu group had even argued that bah-kut-teh refers to the herbal ingredients rather than the meat they flavour.
That's not only kniasu attempts but arguments of pure grade bullshit, wakakaka. Incidentally on a side issue, the Ah Beng word of kniasu always reminds me of Miss Muppet, wakakaka but sorry lah, I can't tell you why, wakakaka again.
'Bah' (meat) in the context of bah-kut-teh and in many other compound words prefixed by the 'bah' word are all cooked with and consisted of mainly pork despite no 'pork' word in them, like:
- bah-knua - Malaysian pork jerky, sometimes written as bakkwa or bahkua though there must be a nasal sound when pronouncing it hence my insertion of a 'n' in the Penang Hokkien word to reflect the correct pronunciation
- bah-hoo - Chinese pork floss which makes wonderful Chinese bah-hoo sandwich or goes well with rice porridge
- bah-chang - Chinese pork dumpling. The sweet version which Chinese nyonya (like my late mum) make are called tnee-chang
- bah-eu - pork lard
- bah-pu-oh - pork crusting
- bah-pu-oi - pork skin
- bah-moi - pork rice porridge. Incidentally, regarding the socio-cultural significance among Chinese Penangites of bah-moi vis-a-vis kay-moi (chicken rice porridge), please read my KTemoc Kongsamkok post Secret soup (4) in which I wrote:
As I last posted in Secret Soup (3), the terminology of kay moi also carries a cryptic (Da Vinci-ish) social code for Penangites.
When Penangites spot their relatives, neighbours or friends all dressed up as if for Sunday church, they would casually ask: “Cheah kay moi ar baa moi?” (are you going to partake of chicken or pork porridge?)
Though the word baa just means meat, common usage in Penang makes the terminology pork rather than beef or lamb.
Please note that I wrote the Secret Soup series back in 2007, six years ago, when I explained the significance of the word 'bah' (then spelt by me as 'baa') in the above last phrase (in yellow highlight).
 |
| lor-bah |
If chicken is used, then we would get labels like the quasi-Anglicised chi-kut-teh or the Chinese kay-moi (as opposed to just bah-moi).
RPK also raised the example of char siew pau (barbecue pork dumpling) versus kai pau (chicken dumpling) - all Canto terms, thus 'kai' instead of the Hokkien word 'kay'.
 |
| bah-chang |
There is no literal language indication of pork in the description of char siew (literal translation = skewered barbecue), but every Chinese in Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, Macau, Australia and southern China (and perhaps even elsewhere) knows the char siew dumpling is stuffed with barbecue pork.
Why then have some Chinese attempted to bullshit their way (on behalf of the Alvivi duo) through the bah-kut-teh fiasco?
 |
| bah-knua |
If you'll allow kaytee his usual Freudian indulgence, the kniasu attitude can be traced to the traumatised (younger generation) Chinese Malaysians who want to 'strike back' at those they perceive as their arrogant oppressor.
It's not unlike the lamentable spew of anti-Muslim emails I receive almost everyday, most of which originated in the USA. Some Yanks still angry over the 9/11 incident (but ignoring their nation's despicable oppression and exploitation of many Arab countries), and probably frustrated with their nation's non-nuking of everything Arab or Muslim, gave vent to their invincible hatred for their turbaned foes through such hate emails, YouTube videos, cartoons, etc involving fabricated allegations, insults and wilful fantasies.
 |
| bah-hoo |
They seek emotional relief in their media acts of masturbation.
And that's what the younger set of Chinese (and at times, Indian) Malaysians do. You can see some Chinese (and Indian) Malaysians automatically supporting rightwing Dutch or Israeli bashing of Arabs and Muslims, without being aware that those rightwing thugs hate them (Chinese and Indians) just as much as, if not more than, the Arabs and Muslims.
Those Malaysian 'nons' seek surrogate targets for their anger at what they see as ketuanan Melayu arrogance and 'oppression', and thus would gleefully join in or support any US-European-Australian-Israeli media-bashing of Arab and Muslim.
 |
| char siew = skewered barbecue are we going to argue these are barbecue chicken? |
They even revel in bullshit fantasies such as Japan not having any diplomatic relations with Muslim countries (what an ideal country for Chinese, one responsible for the Rape of Nanjing) or Robin Williams (a most liberal American) delivering a fabricated anti-Muslim warning.
Thus it's no surprise that some would automatically defend the Alvivi duo's bah-kut-teh provocation in a syiok-sendiri emotional masturbation.
But in doing so, they violated one of the traditional Chinese cautions (or advice), namely, 'don't use a long bamboo pole to knock everyone down'.
In social psychology, this's known as ingroup- outgroup phenomenon. An ingroup is a group of people with which one feels a sense of solidarity. Whereas an outgroup is a group of people excluded from one's own group and so usually an object of hostility.
ReplyDeleteI will not defend the Alvivis' stupidity in posting the photos.
ReplyDeleteI will defend them from the point that their prosecution under the Sedition Act and denying bail to them is overkill and unfair - because far more serious Inflammatory statements have been made by other "protected species" with impunity.
There are also plenty of other cases where those suspected of more serious crimes have been granted bail.
There is nothing to suggest that they are likely to commit any violence or attempt escape - they turned up voluntarily. They can always be ordered to have their blog and Internet accounts suspended, if there is concern on that.
Denying bail to non-violent and unlikely escapees like them amounts to summary punishment without due process.
Part ONE
DeleteIf one is willing to go through the more than 100 plus comments in the comment section in MToday on the recent topic regarding the Alvivi couple, besides those KIASUs who defended the idiotic couple with so-called technicality of bahkut teh vs chitkut teh, one will also find MANY comments all in similar strand as the one posted by Rocketman above. In other blogs and alternative media too, the majority of Chinese have also adopted views similar to the one posted by Rocketman. They castigated the Alvivi duo BUT they were disgusted with the double standard practised in this particular case ( one of the many as a matter of fact, this being the latest). And, get this.....what is the response of the MToday blog host, RPK ? Here is a sample of his replies...all in context of course :
"I have lived amongst Chinese long enough to know they love to argue. And they can't stand to lose an argument even if they have to resort to violence and insults, like you, to win. It is in your genes. Your shot shows you have no sensible response. So you slap with insults to close the debate. Let Malays be warned."
"From an MToday commentator ( by name of hideaki) :The stupid act of the porn couple has been dealt with, which is good. What about the people in the cow head and bible burning incidents ?
EDITOR: Fuck you! Don't you understand English? How many times do you want to keep asking that same stupid question? So you mean this is tit-for-tat? Why don't you mother fuckers just declare war on the Malays and let's settle in on the streets. The Malays are ready. Chibai!
Reply by hideaki :
Hmmm... Why do you want to keep looking at this concern as a tit-for-tat or racial issue ? Thieves or robbers of any race should be dealt with equally. Is it too much to ask for the law to be applied equally to all Malaysians ?"
Part TWO
DeleteLooks like the MToday host sudah mengamok...losing his cool and not a few have taken note of this, as can be seen by these responses :
" RPK may think that the chinese commentators wanted tit for tat. But it is not about that. If the govt. applied the laws selectively, as they like, then, it is a double standard. Justice had to be seen or not be selective. If people cannot voiced out their grievances, or point out the unjust prosecution, then, where is the check and balance..... Rpk, please don't look from a race issue, but rather for a fair practice irrespective of race. We want a fair govt. and people to speak up for the minority rights. The minority also have rights.
Abdul Ghani Patail will be able to get away with it if we do not voice out the discrepancies. One man cannot have all the power and get away with all the unjust things he do, unless he get support from others. Those who support his action are actually condoning his sins."
Another response :
"Why are you post script editor comments on some of the postings here full of swear words? This is only encouraging the mob. Rather than have any discussion we can all take turns and post swear words.
I'm sure you are well versed in the art of retort without resorting to profanities. I can understand for some of the others here who have no more than an iota of the command of THE language. Cheers
Keith."
Hopefully this comment by one Woorabinda will at least take the amok out of RPK :
[written by woorabinda, July 21, 2013 18:05:03
RPK, you are wrong about the Chinese. If you were to follow the events in Malaysiakini, almost all comments coming mostly from Chinese were for charging this duo for their foolish act. I was one of them to support the governmen for taking stern action aginst the duo. What turn support for the government action off the harsh action by the judge: no bail for the duo. Already we all know the government was practising double standards, needless to mention anymore because the whole world knows them, and now such an offence has been treated as equal to murder. This really put us off. When suchan unfair treatment is meted on the duo, condemnation for him turns to support. Yes, as such, you can see all the arguments over chik kut Teh and what not. You can't blame them too. Do you see or read what excuse did our minister Andul Rahmsan put up for Ibrahim Ali for his intention to burn the Bibles? Idiotic isn't it?]
Part THREE
DeleteAnd if one has been wading through the MToday comment section, one will see this peppered all over in that section :
"RACIST ANTI-MALAY COMMENT FROM A CHINESE RACIST PIG DELETED."
However, comments such as these are allowed ..... it's RPK's blog mah :
"At the rate things are going in this country, you Cinakuis are going to get fucked well and good over the next 5 years and beyondsmilies/grin.gif
My friendly advice to you (Cinakuis) is try to enjoy it! There's nothing much you can do any way, yes? Like Chairman Mao says, power comes from the barrel of the gun and since almost all the guns in this country are held by the Malays, you are truly FUCKED !!!smilies/grin.gif "
"written by AntiSinoMan, July 19, 2013 18:59:13
Chinks love to provoke. When the target of their provocation reacts, these Chinks would pretend to be innocent by claiming they were trying to create awareness of other forms of injustice, or that the provocation was misunderstood.
The Malays should literally lynch this duo. Lynching taught the niggers in US not to be disobedient."
And from the great RPK himself :
"I go berserk when someone calls me a racist. If you do that to my face I will break your head. And I have done that before. And because the Chinese Pakatan people call me a racist I refuse to support Pakatan any longer. To hell with Pakatan. i would rather support a corrupt BN than a party that calls me a racist. That is how strongly I feel about the matter.
You want to say I turned, say it. But it's going to take some time for me to ever forgive the Pakatan people for calling me a racist. I detest those Indian pariahs and Chinese pigs in PKR plus the DAP Red Bean Army. I just want to see them dead and their heads cut off. "
So siapa hypocrite ? Siapa tak guna akal ? Siapa pandai mengamok ?
In Jogjakarta, I saw muslim women selling "bak pneah" in the market & my muslim Javanese driver took us - all muslims - to a Chinese confectionery where these "bak pneah" were made. It turned out that "bak pneah" is what we Malaysian called "tau sar pneah". So, here is a case of wrong usage of the word, "bak".
ReplyDeleteKTKia,
ReplyDeleteMy first impression of these two souls is that they really need help, psychologically I mean.
The episode of Alvin and Vivian began not with the bah kut teh thing, but their utter brevity in in exposing their skin and arrogantly being proud of it. They were quiclkly expelled from the little island down south and being make a star by Star upon their return to the land where about more than half of the population are Muslim. Agreed that many Muslims might have troll their images on the internet out of curiousity ( or perhaps as recalcritant perverts) , they really don't give a hoot on what you wanna do on your body. But invoking ( or making fun of ) Muslim practices and beleifs is a great no no! Say what you may about we Muslim as being bias, intolerant or whatever,
but have anybody care to observe that many non Muslim festivities and activities are being practiced unfettered?
"..... have anybody care to observe that many non Muslim festivities and activities are being practiced unfettered? " ...by JohorMali
DeleteSo how about the Muslim festivities and activities are being practised unfettered ? Are you going to reply that this is a GIVEN...that Muslims have more rights and are more EQUAL than the non Muslims who must suffer BEING ALLOWED to practise their way of life 'unfettered' ? So in effect, are you admitting that you Muslims are First Class citizens and the rest of non Muslims as kaffirs are 2nd, 3rd and 4th class ? Isn't this exactly the situation in this country now ?
And what do you mean by 'unfettered' ? When the application to build new houses of prayers like churches take YEARS to approve while the current ruling is that for EVERY new housing development, even if the Muslim population in that new housing area is only 1%, allocation must be given to build a surau there. And oh, by the way, the design of the churches must NOT look like churches, no crosses or steeple can be seen, and if you care to observe, now all the churches are in SHOPLOTS ! This is just ONE small example of being UNFETTERED for the non MUSLIMs. You are free to gather more on what else is being unfettered for the unfortunate non equal citizens in this country.
To a Chinese Bak(Meat) means pork literally, and to a Malay (daging) means beef literally and to an Indian Hindu literally it means mutton.
ReplyDeleteTo a Mat Salleh, meat means either pork, beef, chicken, lamb or whatever. So they call it straight ie. beef, ham, bacon, chicken, lamb or whatnot.
So get wise and stop taking whichever side of the argument and deciding who is hypocritical or kiasu or whatnot.
Are the laws in this country written in English or Malay? Which laws are being used in courts?
Secular laws or syariah laws beibg applied? Muslims or non-Muslims?
Bet, if Alvivi are both Moslems, it's a different ball game altogether, isn't it?
Guess whether the AG will come after them or the NGO's will bash them more? Maybe, they will let them off cos nowadays pau and yong tau foo can also be halal isn't it?
Finally, the realcrime is the so call food liked so much by the chinese in Malaysia called Bak Kut Teh which the Malays and Indians and other people of other religions have still not reach the stage to accept it yet like pau or yong tau foo.
Who's the idiots who started to spin it into a political showmanship?
Is it the duo or the bashers?
There is nothing complicated about this whole situation as some might like to make it out to be lah.....
DeleteFirst, we have 2 pathetic publicity hounds hell-bent to get their names into the limelight in whatever way possible...from exhibitionist sex romps to insensitively mocking another race's religious practice. All of course have to happen at a time when UMNO is on a rampage against the Chinese in the aftermath of the last GE. As one commentator puts it :
"The alvivi bloggers have given a great opening for Umno to go on an 'us vs them' spree in an all out effort to win back lost support from many Malays. Umno has realized that the old game of appealing for gratitude and touting race supremacy has not brought the desired results. However religion still has an iron grip on the Malay masses, their psyche and their emotions and if properly exploited would pay large dividends for Umno."
Just imagine...if the Alvivi couple were of another race and are not Chinese......how totally different the whole scenario would be.
Anon 602,
DeleteRPK never loses an argument. If vulgarities don't work, he runs amok !
Anon 1015...
DeleteI would guess it is his bugis militant wrath where vulgarities/amok is quite normal. A royalty by blood. Two of his ancestors are regarded as Indonesian National Heroes i.e. Raja Haji bin Daeng Chelak and also Raja Ali Haji bin Raja Haji Ahmad. I would recommend him a two-month stay at Pulau Penyengat and I am sure he will find his true identity.
-hasan
Hello KTemoc and RPK,
ReplyDeleteYou are missing the wood for the trees.
It does not help when RPK write as if he is an authority on Chinese thinking. All he does is to insult the Chinese with sweeping generalisatons regarding kiasuism, kiasiism, etc. The yellow bananas tendencies to self insult and to insult the Chinese race does not help either.
The most sensible statement ever from any one so far, I daresay is from the good bishop Paul Tan. I quote from an article in Malaysia Chronicle titled "Alvivi are not "children of a lesser God' - Bishop slams govt's double standards" -
"While retribution was swift in this case, the head of the Johor and Malacca Catholic diocese lamented the lack of action when other faiths are derided.
Tan cited the controversies involving Perkasa leaders Ibrahim Ali and Zulkifli Noordin."
That to me expresses the gist of the ALVIVI incident.
THE TOTAL LACK OF CONCERN AND ACTION FROM CIVIL SOCIETIES TO GET JUSTICE WHERE JUSTICE IS DUE IS REALLY REALLY LAMENTABLE.
Many don't still get it. First the action by the duo insult the Muslims belief. After that many insult the Malays intelligence by arguing a well known pork dish as non pork. Ingat kita bodoh ke? Ingat you can insult us all the time ke? These people are really dumb to think this strategy can ever get the Malay support.
ReplyDeleteIn any incident or controversy there is bound to be comments from the hardcore apologists, extremists, and those-on-the-fringes. With the ease of the internet, their remarks will make it to the comments section of those blogs or websites for all to see. (Before the internet, such remarks are only heard in the kopitiam or in private circles). These extreme comments do not represent the opinion of the majority who are logical and moderate in their thinking. I think it's a waste of time trawling for these extreme comments and engaging with them (like the Muppet who is doing as her daily staple).
ReplyDeleteFor the Alvivi couple, the publicity have been overdone so much so that the authorities have no choice but to throw 3 books at them. (especially when they are still smarting from the climbdown of the conversion bill and the impending withdrawal of the bookstore prosecution). Even if the action is regarded as overkill, I believe most nons would not sympathise with them and hopefully they will be put out of action and so that we could get on with pressing issues.
"These extreme comments do not represent the opinion of the majority who are logical and moderate in their thinking. I think it's a waste of time trawling for these extreme comments and engaging with them (like the Muppet who is doing as her daily staple)."
DeleteSpot on !
But what Anon 602 posted here have rightfully show up the blog host RPK at Malaysia Today for having fallen into the trap of giving in to his, dare I say it, racist instinct. He might turn blue denying he is racist and will threaten to break heads etc....but his comments show him up, no ? The worse are those who are hypocrites but pretend or refuse to acknowledge and instead turn round to castigate others of being so.....
So these bloggers will filter out those majority responses which are tempered and level headed....and will mainly allow those extremist views and then proceed to go hammer and tong with these rag tag lowlives....with all of them descending into an equivalent of an online bar brawl, with no holds barred. Pathetic. Pordah lah the whole bunch of them.
Another controversy emerging?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.jejaktrend.com/2013/07/guru-besar-biarkan-murid-tidak-puasa-makan-di-tandas/
http://my.news.yahoo.com/school--forces--students-to-eat-in-shower-room-073037689.html
Will the Guru Besar be transferred elsewhere until the whole brouhaha quietens down ? Then when the coast is clear, he/she will be back, but this time, will naik pangkat for his sterling performance, untuk agama, bangsa dan negara.
DeleteBtw...reading the many comments in the news.yahoo, one is heartened that many muslims have come out to castigate that idiotic Guru Besar. However.....there will always be apologists galore in such events....excuses to be given and in this case, it would appear that the canteen in question is being "renovated", therefore it has to be closed off and of course, only the toilets and its vicinity are available for meals to be taken.
And why are the advocates of One-School-One-Unity which supposedly promotes peace and understanding and goodwill being silent in such instances ?
Someone mentioned Vegetarian Bak Kut Teh. I googled and found this:
ReplyDeletehttp://kuali.com/recipes/view.aspx?r=1025
Could start a halal chain. After all we have halal dim sum already.
You're never know that's what the duo wanted it - to seek attention and provoke response from what has stemmed from perception. just like Borat and Bruno to draw the ugly sides from each of us. One might argue bak kut teh is synonymous with pork in malaysia, but "literally"it is not. They could have discovered a halal bak kut teh stall in malaysia, with just words and picture that hardly identified as pork could see how Malaysians jump to the guns. Don't we have mock meat dishes in vegetarian restaurants, bak kut teh recipe soup packets in stores. The duo has showed how petty especially when police report filed not from offended but some mca opportunist. And this is unlike from the protesters stepping on severed cow's head.
ReplyDelete