Thursday, November 08, 2012

Tough for Nurul! Tough is Nurul?

Joseph P Kennedy

Joseph P Kennedy, the father of US President John F Kennedy, has sometimes been credited with saying "When the going gets tough, the tough gets going".

It means when the situation (or the 1st 'going', thus a noun) becomes very difficult or challenging (1st 'tough', thus an adjective), those who are resilient or strong (the 2nd 'tough', thus a noun) gets on with the task (the 2nd 'going', thus a verb).

Excuse this, my unnecessary explanation of the above simple sentence which plays on the words 'tough' and 'going' - you see, I have always harboured secret dreams of being an exceptional English language teacher  modelling myself after sweet sexy Ms Tan, my teacher at MBS Penang, not that I want to be seen as sweet and sexy, wakakaka.

Thus the saying means that a strong and resilient person won't buckle to any difficulty but will in fact rise to meet the difficult challenge.

However, there is a second (modern) interpretation which is less noble sounding, typical of modern day mentality/spirit. It can also mean some people who act tough and/or proud will abandon a task/challenge when it becomes difficult because they don't want to be proven they aren't that tough as they want to appear to be.

Anyway, the 'going' for poor Nurul Izzah is now certainly getting 'tough' because the BN and pro BN mullahs and even some non-BN but highly conservative mullahs are accusing her of advocating apostasy for Muslims.

Mashita Ibrahim, a deputy minister in the PM's Department (meaning this bloke, of course with a datukship, has no real portfolio but is a leech hanging around the PM's Office just to get a deputy ministerial title and pay) has threatened legal action, presumably of the Islamic type, against Nurul Izzah.

Nurul is therefore guilty until proven otherwise.

photo from The Malaysian Insider

Now, just a reminder (again you may think this is unnecessary but I have blogger's privilege wakakaka), Nurul is the daughter of Anwar Ibrahim, a politician who hasn't impressed me (still doesn't) with his content, brand and style of politics. But just because I don't like Anwar doesn't mean I have to dislike Nurul. In fact I like her for her decent and reasonably innocent approach to politics.

Yup, I am not that sort of person who believes in the biblical saying that the sins of the father will be visited upon their children for several generations, a la

Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me – Deuteronomy 5:9


I will even repay into their bosom, both their own iniquities and the iniquities of their fathers together – Isaiah 65:6-7

… which I opine is utter nonsense on the basis of logic, commonsense and secular justice, apart from the fact I'm an atheist wakakaka.

Thus I'm annoyed, in fact very annoyed, that the BN and those ultra conservative mullahs are persecuting Nurul beyond the bounds of acceptable civilised and religious requirements. If she has committed a mistake, okay, chew her up but cease the daily barraging - don't misuse, abuse and exploit a religious point for personal (BN) political gains by escalating the issue with dire threats everyday. That's exploiting the religion of Islam.

I mentioned Nurul as the daughter of Anwar because I suspect the relentless BN persecutions against her has many objectives, one aimed at Anwar as well (not that I care two hoots he gets a bit of the BN political targeting) but also at PKR as a party, Pakatan as a coalition, and I suspect, Nurul's own future/potential as an important political leader on the side opposite to BN.

Yes, she's getting a heavy barrage of flak not unlike the series of fabricated accusations against Lim Guan Eng, except in her case, she is relatively young and vulnerable and the issue involved is a sensitive one in Malaysia, an accusation of a Muslim advocating apostasy in predominantly Muslim Malaysia.

But then I suppose, there is another saying, if one can't stand the heat in the kitchen one should get out.

She is no doubt currently under enormous pressure as she has solicited advice from Islamic scholar Datuk Dr Mohd Asri Zainul Abidin, the former Perlis Mufti, to help her explain to the public what she had stated. Dr Asri has supported what she said as being correct and not what the BN has been accusing her of.

Just as an observation of the pressure Nurul is now being subjected to, let's listen to the words of another sweetie, the very person who asked her that 'fatal' question, Siti Kasim, a member of the Bar Council human rights committee and Orang Asli righst advocate.

Siti Kasim has now emerged in the midst of the current brouhaha to say that she is disappointed with Nurul for backing away from her statement that freedom of religion was a right for all including the Malay-Muslims. She lamented that Nurul has failed to stand firm on her remark.

Siti Kasim said: “I believe Nurul was just trying to impress the people. She didn’t think of the consequences. There’s nothing wrong about it [freedom of religion], she is saying the truth. I expected a hoo-ha after that. But as a politician, you just need to stick to the truth."

"In the following days she ‘retracted’ her remark, and said she did not support apostasy. But indirectly when you say you support freedom of religion, and if Malay wants to get out from Islam, that’s apostasy.”

Hmmm, maybe Nurul indeed wanted to impress her audience but alamak, Siti, cut her some slack lah as Nurul is still young and really, a babe in the political woods. Besides, to a Muslim, apostasy is an extremely serious issue, where the punishment could well be death (though of course the authorities won't go to that extent in Malaysia).

Now, could it be from her chiding of Nurul for backing off, that Siti herself wants acceptance of the doctrine that all Malaysians including Malay-Muslims enjoy freedom of religion?

Siti Kasim

Anyway, Siti Kasim dismissed Nurul's critics as conservatives who somehow believe their version of the religion is the only correct one, and that includes former PM, Dr Mahathir - will come to him shortly wakakaka..

However, Siti is somewhat like me wakakaka, less impressed with the Manmanlai man, stating she had once asked him the same question, and hardly surprising, failed to get a direct response from Asia's Renaissance Man, wakakaka.

Siti Kasim must have sneered when she revealed: “He was going around the bush and didn't answer directly. We want politicians to be straight forward.”

Aiyah, darleeeng, that's what I term as tap dancing, which Anwar does very well. I hope Nurul Izzah doesn't inherit that characteristic.

So, given Siti Kasim's revelation of Nurul backing down from her initial statement, which interpretation of the saying 'When the going gets tough, the tough gets going' applies to Nurul Izzah.

Would it be 'a strong and resilient person won't buckle to any difficulty but will in fact rise to meet the difficult challenge' or 'a person who acts tough but would abandon a challenge when it becomes difficult because they don't want to be proven they aren't that tough as they want to appear to be'?

I leave that to your assessment, for you to evaluate after considering all relevant factors affecting Nurul.

Now we come to our dear Dr Mahathir. But before that, I might bring in the father-daughter continuum as I did for Anwar Ibrahim and Nurul Izzah.

Apart from Marina Mahathir being a good matey, I have always admired her for her leadership and continuing advocacy for our HIV-AIDS support movement, gender equality, human rights, support for Bersih, etc.

I not only admire Marina but like her very much. She is of course the daughter of Dr Mahathir but like the situation for Anwar-Nurul, it doesn't mean I like or have to like Dr Mahathir. In fact I now want to criticize Dr Mahathir for what he said of Nurul's statement that there should be no compulsion in religion for Malaysians.

In The Malaysian Insider's news article Dr M joins fray against Nurul Izzah, says Muslims don’t quit Islam he stated We are Muslims. We do not change our religion. Others … their beliefs perhaps permit them to convert. We should not be too taken by western thoughts.”

Okay, up to that stage, fair enough.

But he escalated into preposterousness when he added: "If we're free to do this and that in the end we start to produce films that ridicule other religions and then we fight among us", referring, I suppose, to the recent anti-Islam film by Sam Bacile also known as Nakoula Basseley (or allegedly, the man behind it all, Pastor Terry Jones of the Dove World Outreach Centre) - for more about that anti-Islam film, read my earlier post Charlie Hebdo - further Western hypocrisy.

Pastor Terry Jones

Dr Mahathir has drawn a preposterously long bow in associating Nurul's remarks about non-compulsion in religion to producing films that ridicule religions. He might have want to make the kitchen extremely hot for Nurul and PKR-Pakatan but really there's no need to throw the kitchen sink at her.

But it's a striking example of BN's intent to make hay out of Nurul's faux pas, but alas, that's something Nurul has to live with.


  1. What to expect from Mamak Kutty, the shameless, hypocritical and sly old fox ?

    When this lowlife was in power, he shamelessly claimed that his two sons were sitting in the boards of more than 100 companies each because of their capabilities and abilities and not because they had a PM old man .
    The fact was the two scumbag juniors's very own companies were in dire straits and needed desperately for Mamak to use public funds to bail them out.

  2. There were many striking examples of pr making hay out of a haystack. They threw the kitchen sink et all. Eg lynas. PR used llies and unsubstantiated prejudices to justify stands which are scientific ally proven wrong.

    You must get out of this mindset of supporting personality. Right or wrong does not depend on the person. You will have problems.

    Lets go to the facts. Did she say no compulsion in Religion be applied to Muslims as well? She's denying it saying MSM twisted it. But now we know it originated from pro pr malaysiakini. If you look at the transcript the audience understood it that way as they applaused her stand. In fact when nurul retracted it, the lawyer who asked the question criticized her for her about turn.

    See the lies and deceit to cover up. If she said that and against our values what is wrong in criticizing her. She's advocating a position which actually will trouble PAS deeply. Own your stand.

    The basis of your write in damage control for nurul is thus extremely shallow. You are saying its unfair to criticize nurul coz she's young in politics.

    This is the hypocrisy of it all. First pr applies this kitchen sink method all the time. Two if its from a bn youth leader this excuse is not acceptable and derided.

    I suggest you should take a more credible stand. Don't support leaders blindly. If she's wrong say so and face the music. Everyone there including the lawyer who posed the question understood that she meant that Muslims should have a choice to choose.

    What we see will be attack on her stand. This is expected. And her defense of it. Also expected. But so far the attack seems justifiable. The defense has seen denials and lies. Then we get people doing damage control on izzah here saying we should give her room coz she's young. This last write by you is bewildering to say the least.

  3. u need to read ezekiel chapter 18 just to brush up, if you want to talk about bible knowledge..

  4. @Anonymous 6:51 AM
    Does Ezekiel chapter 18 then contradicts Deuteronomy 5:9 and Isaiah 65:6-7 ?

  5. Religions are free
    By God who make all happen
    The prophets came and talk of the good news
    Let the people decide which way to go

    When prophets were gone
    The self styled authorities and rulers
    They begun the work to reign them in
    They threw others away with power they could

    In those centuries ago
    God punished them these 'faked' leaders
    God destroyed the empires they built
    God destroyed those power seeking rulers

    The fanatics and its followers
    Whatever religion they are in
    God will punish them eventually
    They are not the appointed ones

    Religions belong to God
    No man should make it his own
    God never force any one to accept
    The people have a choice to make

    There is no compulsion in religion
    Any person can accept or decline
    It is a choice we will make
    When we go, let God decide

  6. Anon of 6.51 AM, the Hebrew God threatened his (so-called) Chosen people via Deuteronomy 5:9 and Isaiah 65:6-7 that the iniquity of fathers could be punished for generations, even against their children. Obvious He (or his priest-bloke who claimed so on His behalf) wanted to frighten the shit out of those wild and feral Hebrews, wakakaka.

    However, Ezekiel Chap 18 dealt with a different problem - some smart asses (the children) asserted that if they were bad/sinning, it was because of their fathers' iniquities, that they inherited their fathers’ badness and therefore weren’t to be blamed.

    But the Hebrew God told them, again via another creative priest-bloke who claimed to have heard him say that: Who, hang on a ding dong minute, young fellas, that’s a lousy excuse. I'm gonna judge your sins against what’s in your personal ledger, and you can't simply hope to blame that on and as a result of your dads' iniquities.

    The word of Jehovah came unto me again, saying, What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge? As I live, saith the Lord Jehovah, ye shall not have [occasion] any more to use this proverb in Israel. Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die - Ezekiel 18:1-4

    But in no way did their God say, forget about Deuteronomy 5:9 and Isaiah 65:6-7 as Ezekiel Chap 18 supersedes them.

    YVWH (or that Hebrew medium who claimed God said so) was tricky, catching the Hebrews one way or another, wakakaka.

  7. Master KTMoc
    Sometimes ah...when one goreng sambal tumis cili, the potent really get into the eyes, you know?
    So the moral of the story, don't cook cili or anything pedas, just plain porridge will do.

  8. Nurul did not deny saying that there is no compulsion in Islam. What she is denying, and making clear that Utusan Malaysia has twisted her words is the claim that she supports apostasy among Muslims.

    BN and their MSM and cyber troopers are really, really desperate at this juncture. For the first time in BN/Alliance history, they are facing the possibility of the political equivalent of death. Desperate men do desperate things.
    The possibility they are facing is is not a humdrum change of government like what happens in modern liberal democracies every now and then. For a party which has used their control of the Federal government as a Goldmine, they face the equivalent of death.

  9. Monsterbaby,
    I think you're either blur on the issue or purely spinning.
    The words "no compulsion in religion" is a translation for a verse in the Quran. It's typically used by proponent of freedom of choice of religion for Muslims to justify such position in Islam. This is an extreme minority view as opposed to overwhelming majority Muslims not only in Malaysia but worldwide.. Almost all jurists hold this view that apostacy is not permitted..
    That's why when nurul said that Muslims Have a choice to choose in Islsm, everybody including those in audience and the lawyer who asked the queston knew it meant that she's agreeable to permit apostasy.
    Thus comments against her on this issue is fair. She took an extreme view. So just own it.

  10. Haha..poor sweetie Nurul...all the 'upright' statesmen and turbaned holy of holies descended upon her like wolves who hadn't eat for days, so hungry to tear into her so ravenously. This drama ain't gonna end anytime soon...police report sudah bikin.

  11. I subscribe to the normal distribution curve.

    In any human sampling, this distribution curve always hold true where majority congregate at the middle while some will appear at both ends.

    We can make laws to straighten this line but nature always prevail.

    We might abide by the law but the heart cannot be leashed!

  12. This Nurul woman is like her gift from God father. Chief spinner and forked tongue who pretends to know about Islam. A munafik really. Better not taught about religion if you are just a party gal. Better talk about the latest dance and the latest fashion. And as usual the holy men from Kelantan kingdom is supporting her. All for the sake of politics.

  13. Buttercup,

    it is easy to criticise.Put you into a room with this fiesty lass and you wouldn't last a few seconds.Hehehe.

    Ten Muhyidins and Nong Chik's cannot equal one(1) Nurul.What say you can compare.1,000,000-1.No smell lah(be bo aen)

  14. Buttercup,
    How are you enjoying your FGV capital windfall ?

  15. Yeah, compared to Nurul, figures like Moo, Nong Chik, Shahrizat and Ellese are mere mental and moral midgets.

  16. Anon 1.04 am and Anon 1.45 am

    Nurul smart? Hahaha even my balls are laughing.
    I went to school with her. Std 6 exams didn't even get 5 As. Brought the school rating down. Our school is a high performance school where Ministers and VVPs children went to.
    At Assunta, her SRP and SPM rsults were equally dismal.
    Only managed to enter a local U. And former US ambassador to Malaysia finally get her to enter John Hopkins through back-door.
    In the first place, the father is not smart at all. Just a lot of gas-bag. Good at cheating.
    Izzah is just riding on father's name. No party will want her if not for her family dynasty party.
    Father gone, all gone. Cant stand on her own two feet.
    Pity her really, suffering like her mom over her father's pecadillos with Azmin's wife and China doll and Saiful.
    But have to put a smiling face and in onstant denial mode. In that she's brave.

  17. Wah, Ellese has become Ellese A.
    She is another Monsterball.Keep changing their names.
    Only difference is one knows how to talk smart for BN. The other talk cock. Now making his name in Sakmongkol's blog.
    Sakmongkol needs discards to support his sucked blog.

  18. anon 10.28am

    Hahaha.Hehehe.Ellese and Ellese A,what is the difference.Both are poyiaus,either ways.

  19. Anon 10:24 AM
    I have never met Nurul, but I certainly know about John's Hopkins university, which she is a graduate. My daughter's alma mater as well.
    No back doors - you meet the standards or you don't get in. It has an acceptance rate of 17% i.e. only one out of six applicants is accepted. It has a long line of Nobel Prize winners counted among its former students, as well as current and former members of its faculty.
    As I mentioned, I've never met Nurul, but I very sure she is no dumbo.

    By the way my daughter isn't coming back to Malaysia, and I support her decision. The corrupt kleptocracy that Barisan Nasional runs , and will continue to run is a waste of talent for the best and the brightest that the country has produced.

  20. To the few anons who refer my names above. If you disagree rebut with points. To cast aspersions without more is unacceptable and if you've countered me before you know i will reply in kind. Don't equate me with others like Monsterball lah or other politicians lah to disrepute me. I defend my honour and name. I'm the only one who use the name Ellese. Ellese A is another variant which I've used for years. None so far has been confused by this unique name.