While the Nguyen Tuong Van’s case will now see its tragic conclusion in just about 2 hours with the young man's execution, the uproar and debate it has generated in Australia, and the drawing of people of various religions coming together to pray for him, the last minute break by Australia’s Attorney-General with PM Howard in terming the hanging ‘barbaric’ which has been a shocking diplomatic insult to the Singapore government, have stirred some reassessment in Singapore about its capital punishment where judges are not allowed to consider mitigating circumstances.
For the first time, its highly controlled media has raised questions about its one-size-fits-all capital punishment. But observers warned that this 'awakening of the conscience' is more confined to the intelligentsia and the media rather than the government's realisation of its out-of-step policy with other 1st world nations.
But we can only hope this minor stirrings in Singapore can become a long overdue first step, towards Singapore rethinking its draconian punishment.
I believe death by hanging is barbaric...and that the judicial system where judges are not allowed to consider mitigating circumstances is just out of tune with other developed nations...
ReplyDeleteSince you are from Malaysia, are you saying that Malaysia is a barbaric country too since the capital punishment in M'sia is also death through hanging?!
ReplyDeletejeremy, thanks for your comments. I'll be blogging on a Malaysian case which proves your point that disallowing judges to consider mitigating circumstances in a case which involves severe punishment, is not only inflexibly cruel, but usurps the role of the supposedly independent judiciary. The case I will soon highlight will demonstrate the hypocrisy behind such draconian laws.
ReplyDeletektemoc, thank you. i'll be looking forward to it :)
ReplyDeleteanonymous: IMHO, and as my religion dictates, i disagree on all forms of punishments by death, in whatever means. i did not say that my own country is barbaric - please don't put words into my mouth and take them out of context. no country on this good earth is perfect, there are bound to be flaws and i think we all agree on that, but it is pointless to generalise or stereotype.
Well, you have so righteously said that death by hanging is barbaric.
ReplyDeleteWhat I am saying is that since M'sia also hangs criminals and based on your righteous rationale, thus, what M'sia does, according to your rationale, is considered barbaric too.
Thus, directly or indirectly, you are saying that what M'sia is doing is barbaric.
You have used the same adjective that the then PM of Australia, in 1986,Bob Hawke, had himself used when he said that M'sia's hanging of the 2 convicted drug traffickers in the form of Kevin Barlow & Brian Chambers was barbaric. M'sia was not amused.
My dear anonymous, when the public termed the act of the policeman/policemen who were involved in the squatgate incident as "perverted", does that also imply that all Malaysians are "perverted" as well? I for one certainly am not.
ReplyDeleteTherefore, when a country has a particular law or ruling that is barbaric (like i mentioned before, all countries have at least one...probably), does that mean that the whole nation is considered barbaric?
I am not righteous, i'm just religious. Please do not put my words out of context again.
Oh, and btw, a few things i'd like to point out:
ReplyDelete1. since every country has at least one barbaric law, I guess all countries in this world are considered barbaric then...
2. it' is not my righteous rationale, it is just my religious beliefs...are you demeaning my religion then or do you just disagree with it? if so, then you should take the debate up with any catholic priests in the country...
3. i love my country, i consider myself a patriot. the times when i represented my nation and stood proud as the jalur gemilang is flown are sentiments i will always have in my heart. but that doesn't mean i MUST agree with all that the judicial system have to offer. that is what democracy is all about - the right to your own opinions. my country is certainly not barbaric. its people are not barbaric. but the death penalty is.
4. as i've said before, i disagree with ALL forms of punishments by death. i suppose based on your assessment, i inadvertantly term all countries that administer such punishments as barbaric then...?
If one were to slavishly listen to your rambling reasoning, why then was M'sia not amused when Bob Hawke uttered the word "barbaric?"
ReplyDeleteAre you, thus, saying that M'sia had "misinterpreted" Bob Hawke's utterance as per what you have so diligently explained above?!
anonymous, i'm really getting tired of you putting my words out of context...
ReplyDeletefirst of all, as i have so clearly mentioned, i am not being righteous nor is it my "rambling reasoning"...do you understand plain simple english or not? my religion values all life as important, and forbids punishments by death. how many times must i say this until you get it into your head?
secondly, i was probably just a toddler when bob hawke said whatever he said and i've never referenced any of my comments to him. why are you picking on me and linking what i'm saying with what this ex aussie pm is saying? I want to ask you something: are you unhappy with the fact that i disagree with malaysia's capital punishment? or are you unhappy that i said something which was reminiscent of what was said dunno how long ago which i had no idea of? or are you just not pleased that you disagree with my views?
it's okay to disagree, not everyone shares the same opinions about certain things. i respect ur opinion (whatever they are, where do u stand on this capital punishment issue anyway?) so pls respect mine.
PS - stop taking my words out of context again: if you wanna have a constructive debate, fine but pls understand what i write first instead of putting them out of context.
PPS - personally, i DO feel that hanging people to death or injecting lethal poison or shooting them or electrocuting them (or whatever execution that you can think of) as BARBARIC. This is how i feel, so there. Is it wrong to feel that way? Maybe I don't take enjoyment out of people being executed, but that doesn't make me a bad person, does it? Why don't you do a survey and see how many people in MALYSIA feel that way? If i feel that way, i'm sure there are others too... not everyone agrees with death as the capital punishment, you know...
No one is disrespective of your views. Am sure you could have deciphered & digested my plain written English language!
ReplyDeleteAnd no one has said you are a bad person either! Am sure your truly, humble self would have got that into your head by now!
The point is M'sia was not amused when Bob Hawke uttered the word "barbaric" and M'sia still won't be amused if "barbaric" is being used to describe the act of punishings the criminals who deserve that.
Nobody has implored nobody to conduct a survey with regards to capital punishment in M'sia. But since you have so eagerly raised this first, why don't you get a survey conducted and see how many people in M'sia are behind you!?
Okay, so your point being? You're not happy with the fact that I used the word barbaric, right? So now I must seek your permission on what word to use, is it? My dear anonymous, I'll be sure to check with you on what adjectives to use next time, okay? I don't think Malaysia is a backward and narrow minded country to be mindful of what words her citizens use. When I used the word barbaric, I bore no reference to what was said by some foreigner. I don't think Malaysia would hold that against me. I mean, I think there are worse crimes being committed by malaysians all over the country compared to my mere usage of a word...
ReplyDeleteOkay la, I'm quite tired of this. Would it make you feel better if I used the word "unpleasant" instead? ie I believe that death by hanging is unpleasant...happy?
Come on, man, it's just a word. Get over it.
Btw, I have done a little survey, albeit a small one. All the people at my church fellowship do not believe in death as capital punishment. In fact, we too find it barbaric, to say the least. I guess Malaysia is most unhappy with us then... *sigh* can't please the whole world, I guess...
From the tone of your words, you seem to believe that some people desere death. Okay, I respect your opinion on that, though I disagree.
No,no,no, why bother begging "permission" from me for you to describe death by hanging in M'sia as "barbaric!"
ReplyDeleteIf you,indeed, need to beg for a "permission", then, you better beg it from the country.
Obviously, when you challenged me to conduct a so-called "survey", I seriously thought you meant a more authorative survey, not a survey in my small hamlet! Likewise, to your so-called pitiful survey, the folks in my entire miniscule village are unanimous in their support for capital punishment!
Go & conduct a national survey, silly, not just one under the coconut shell!
Am wondering if you find crimes like murder committed by crimininals "barbaric"?! I doubt you would as after all, you have yet to be a victim of any serious crimes anyway!
My dear anonymous, i don't know why you're so full of anger. Have you been a victim of a vicious crime? If so, i empathise with you. I was a victim of a robbery 2 months ago where the perpetrator is malaysian and i ended up with a gash on my right forearm. Fortunately, I managed to recover from the injury.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, back to our discussion. This is where you're missing the point - as my religion dictates (mind you, this is neither righteous thinking nor rambling logic) - and as well as what other religion such as Bhuddism, Hinduism and Islam preaches - death is for God and God alone to decide, not us mere human beings. As for barbaric crimes, the proper judicial system has to be impartial to set a punishment that befits the crime, and not punish out of vengeance or hate. I don't know whether you are a religious man or not but please, death is a very serious religious matter for me and for a lot of people in malaysia.
As for the national survey, it's not about numbers or who has more support (this is not a competition, my dear boy) - it's about just asking the people around you what they think. i am not looking for the whole country's support for the word barbaric, but the point here is that there are those that disagree with the death penalty. Even if I am the only person in Malaysia who feels that the punishment is barbaric, then so be it. at the end of the day it is still my opinion - Malaysia is a democratic country, it is not biased against the minority.
As for your coconut shell comments, i don't think the 10 or so people at my parish would find that amusing - yes, the number may not be great but we are still malaysians true and true...are you saying that our opinions do not matter? if so, then look who's the silly one indeed.
You know, all said and done, I find you rather petty and insensitive. Among other things:
1. You're picking on me over the word "barbaric". It also has the same meaning as the word cruel but bob hawke didn't say it - would you be less picky then?
2. You're not happy that we disagree on the capital punishment to be administered. Why can't we agree to disagree? I can.
3. You're disrespectful of my religion - in no fewer than 2 occasions, you've termed it as "righteous thinking" and "rambling logic".
4. You're disrecpectful of my parish - coconut shell, huh? I'm afraid I cannot afford to conduct a national survey if it pleases you - not every malaysian is so well off.
5. You keep inserting words into my mouth, and putting words out of context - my sejarah textbooks didn't teach me about bob hawke. i had to search for him on the internet.
One final thing, are you Malaysian? If so, what have you done for your country ? have you ever stood up for your country and be counted? have you ever done her proud? why don't you defend her against malicious attacks from foreigners, rather than pick on fellow countrymen/patriots over the usage of a mere word? then i'll call you a hero. then malaysia will appreciate you.
the govt uses death by hanging more as a warning than as a punishment. for personal reasons, i'm rather indifferent towards drug users/pushers, but i strongly feel that the death penalty should be imposed on first degree murderers, rapists, child molesters, paedophiles etc.
ReplyDeletei don't find death by hanging any more barbaric compared to life imprisonment, but then again that's probably the atheist side of me speaking.
that said, the malaysian govt supports death as capital punishment but we as its citizens have every right to disagree with that choice and make ourselves be heard (during elections through voting, of course).
anonymous: it's okay to disagree, but it's not okay to force people to agree with you...
It seems you are the one sounding so petty and couldn't accept points view different from yours to the point that you sound so righteous to the readers.
ReplyDeleteAs for the challenge of conducting a so-called survey, it was you who threw that challenge and it is simply so amusing to see your pitifully, distorted response when that challenge was thrown back to your face.
Oh yes, don't shame JFK but asking what he had asked Americans but since you have asked, may I & other readers asked what have you done for your country so far?!You can lift your so-called veil of humility and brag to us what you have done!
You seem to speak "authoratively" but are you so cocksure that all the religions you mentioned preach what you preach with regards to capital punishment? In what position are you saying that even Islam preaches what you have preached as far as capital punishment is concerned? There is no provision for capital punishment in Islam, that's what you are saying?
i'm suddenly getting this mental image that instead of hanging criminals, we should just crucify them..
ReplyDelete*lazily*
ReplyDeleteislam does endorse death penalties - hudud law, stoning a person to death, killing kafirs..
to muslims it's probably acceptable because the koran states so. it's their belief. and noone is stopping them from believing, least of all me.
respect, people, respect.
on a lesser note, i am truly disgusted with the concept of honour killing (killing a girl who has disgraced her family). now i think THAT is downright BARBARIC.
My dear anonymous, this will be my FINAL comment on this matter.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, did I not say I RESPECT your views on capital punishment? Why am I now being labeled as not being able to accept other points of view? hmm... oh, you mean I CANNOT agree with YOUR views, is it? Sorry, I won't turn into the dark side. *Sigh* it just kills you when other people do not share your views, doesn’t it?
Secondly, the survey was not a challenge - why so aggressive? As I've mentioned before, this is not a competition - there are no prizes up for grabs. (Btw, you used the word hamlet – are you local?)
Thirdly, you referenced Bob Hawke and now JFK? My goodness, it seems that everything that I say or write seem to be linked to past historical figures... Are you a historian/history teacher btw? Oh, and this veil of humility thing (beautiful language, I have to concede), I never said I was humble (see, taking my words out of context AGAIN...so RECALCITRANT..ooops, that was Paul Keating, right? Oh dear...)
Fourth and most important of all - with regards to all the religions, they have one thing in common : GOD almighty is the ONLY ONE TRUE Judge, Jury and Executioner. I mentioned that life is for God to give and for God to take away. Do you disagree? Did I say there’s no provision for capital punishments in Islam? (putting words into my mouth again…)Btw, you are muslim, right? I've never been disrecpectful to people of other faiths but YOU are quite disrecpectful to mine...
Finally, I do not appreciate nor respond to coarse language. If you want to argue, fine but be sensible and justified in your arguments. The kind of language you use reflects on the kind of person you are. So very negative, maybe you need anger management counseling... just a thought...
Having said all of the above, I would like to bid you a not so fond farewell - it's been amusing debating with you for the past week (until you used foul language on me, that is). It would have been good to know whom I've been debating with - you sounded so courageous but yet you hide behind the veil of anonymity.
Didn't you say the following & I quote:
ReplyDelete"This is where you're missing the point - as my religion dictates (mind you, this is neither righteous thinking nor rambling logic) - and as well as what other religion such as Bhuddism, Hinduism and Islam preaches - death is for God and God alone to decide, not us mere human beings."
You have, above, ignorantly insinuated that Islam doesn't condone capital punishment, unless I have read you wrong. Therefore, don't try to backtrack your ignorance by again rambling blindly with all sorts of confusing denials and explanations!
And in order to mislead fellow readers further, you have, as usual, with your "holier than thou" attitude excused yourself by saying that I have used "coarse/foul" word! Could you be kind enough to point out to everyone here which was the so-called unnerving "coarse/foul" word that I have used!?
I am pretty sure that the blogger, "Mr KTemoc", would not allow such so-called coarse/foul words to flood his blog.
And you continue to yap away again in a confused way accusing me for hiding behind the "veil of anonymity" but your ignorant-self and all readers would have seen conspicuously that all contributors here have been given a choice by the blogger concerned to choose an identity and "Anonymous" is amongst the choices given.
In fact, most, if not all, of the names used in blogs are mere aliases and am sure that even the name "KTemoc" is an alias!
So, the name you have called yourself has no tinge of anonymity? So, that name you have given yourself here "Jeremy C" is your real, full name ,of course, as per your IC? Can't you see that you are no more annonymous as I am?! Or, one has to reveal one's full name as the main criterion required to write here. So childish of you!
Don't evade and avoid the topic! You have arrogantly asked what I have done for my country in your previous post.
And I have,likewise, asked you what have you done for M'sia! Tell us all what you have done for your country so far!
It is real sad to see you imbibed with your typical "holier than thou" attitude.
Anonymous, why must you pick and poke and dissect everything? Are you so full of yourself that you feel that only YOUR views are correct and everyone else's views are mere rubbish? So intolerant.
ReplyDeleteI am pro-death penalty for drug pushers but supporters like you are a disgrace to the civilized world.
Have you been suppressed since childhood? I think you have severe psychological problems. Please seek treatment immediately.
Btw, in case you're going to use your famous JFK line on me, this I've got to say: I am a father of 5 children, all of whom are successful professionals now.
ReplyDeleteThis in line with our dear ex-PM's call to have 5 children to increase Malaysia's population.
I am a Muslim. I believe that wrongdoers should be punish accordingly. But I don't believe in mudslingers like you.
Oh, did I say my views are paramount while others are rubbish?
ReplyDeleteUnless, you yourself are so intolerant as to my consider your views as paramount and others' as rubbish?
Well, likewise, it takes one who is a disgrace to the civilised world to call another one so.
Oh, one criterion for having contributed to the country is having 5 kids! You are a real joke, bloke!
Likewise, me think you have very debilitating psychological problems too with your all sudden raving & ranting!
"..Oh, one criterion for having contributed to the country is having 5 kids! You are a real joke, bloke!.."
ReplyDeleteNow, now are you trying to demean our ex-PM's words? how simply rude and disrespectful of you..