Saturday, May 12, 2012

PAS and its Hudud


Free Malaysia Today (FMT) reported in its Hudud if PAS wins more seats than allies that:

PAS has made its stand on the hudud issue loud and clear. If they secure more seats than their allies in the Pakatan Rakyat than the hudud law would be implemented. 
Its Ulama Council chief Harun Taib told the government-linked English daily New Straits Times yesterday that the implementation of Hudud was “inevitable” in the event that PAS becomes the leading party in the federal opposition bloc. 
“If we have enough majority, if PAS is stronger than our allies, we will implement… even if not with the current partners we have in Pakatan… may be there will be other pacts that will lend us their support,” he was quoted as saying.

The operative phrase in Harun Taib's avowal above for its implementation of hudud surely has to be:

“… even if not with the current partners we have in Pakatan …”.

In other words, to PAS, Pakatan is a mere convenient stepping stone to its hudud ambition, and not a coalition of shared policies on social equity, human rights and democratic process.

In fact the Kedah State government of Azizan Abdul Razak has already shown its undemocratic character in its recent legislation which places its man-made fatwas dictatorially out of bounds to democratic debate or public feedback.

PAS' obsession with bringing in hudud to replace civil laws is not merely confined to the ulamak faction but also the so-called Erdogens as exemplified by its Mursyidul Am or spiritual leader, Pak Haji Nik Aziz insisting on the implementation of hudud in Kelantan, and on miscellaneous issues such as compulsory wearing of the tudung for women in that state (with hardly-affordable financial fines for those poor sweeties who didn't or forgot to comply) and his often-calls upon women to avoid rape by abandoning use of lipstick and perfume. These are the shadows cast by coming events!

PAS claims that hudud will curb crimes and corruption haven’t been supported by the conduct of the leaders and people of States already having full syariah laws such as Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Bangladesh, Afghanistan etc. Nay, not one single State anywhere in the world with syariah laws as its legislative system can stand out as an example of good governance or conduct, nor its citizens as exemplary people.

By contrast, within those States, mankind’s inhumanity to mankind have been abundantly demonstrated with, just as one example, the most barbarous of conduct, namely ‘honour rapes’, which disgustingly are tolerated by their medieval-minded societies, who are not only misogynistic but also religiously biased especially against fellow Muslim minorities such as Shias.

The PAS apologists offer the pathetic arguments that those barbarous conducts have been tribal rather than Islamic practices without even realizing their very excuses prove the point, namely, that syariah-hudud laws have been unable to override tribal laws or the innate wicked and selfish nature of man, and thus have offered no protection against innocent victims but instead, in many cases, protect the offenders’ persecutions and oppressions of their victims.

So, how will hudud ever improve on the protection of the weak and minorities currently offered by civil laws, with warts and all?

Syariah-hudud laws will only empower the Muslim clerics, people such as Azizan Abdul Razak and his now inviolable, unquestionable, and ominously all-powerful fatwas, or enable Nasrudin Hasan to ban non-Muslim events such as Valentine’s Day, entertainment performances and god-knows-what-else with absolute impunity.

When we leave the laws of the country in the hands of the cleric, who would of course claim they speak in the name of or on behalf of God (and it’s a universal trait, not exclusive to any religion), we are immediately at their tender mercies, prejudice and vested interests, as a Shiite rape victim in Saudi Arabia was unjustly subjected to.

We are not completely oblivious to European history, biblical tales or the sagas of Hinduism where the Church and priesthood exploited religion for their political and personal advantage.

But having said that about Europe and Christianity, when the Boxing Day tsunami devastated Indonesia, while Sunni Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the Gulf countries either prevaricated or offered Scrooge-size donations, accompanied by insults that Allah swt had punished the sinful Indonesians, secular Australia, China, USA and Europe came up with humongous sums to support Indonesia in its moments of most dire needs.

It may be worthwhile recalling that Michael Schumacher personally donated a sum 5 times greater than what the Croesus-rich nation of Kuwait had initially offered, while Jackie Chan also personally funded the development of a brand new village for Sumatrans affected by the tsunami to the tune of millions of dollars.

Our only defence against the insidious subversion of God’s laws into an unacceptable clerical ‘God only proposes but it’s Man (the cleric) who disposes’ is the strengthening, upholding and non-negotiable protection/defence of the secular Constitution and the civil courts.

For more of the barbarous acts of a State under syariah laws, please read my earlier posts:



The saga of Muktaran Bibi, a victim of the disgusting barbarous so-called 'honour rape' in Pakistan, exemplified the lie of PAS that adoption of the rule of syariah will stop "endemic social decadencies and rampant injustices."


Au contraire, oh au contraire, I can only lament!

Anyway, the FMT report continues:

Opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim said immediately after chairing the pact’s presidential council meeting that PAS had agreed that Hudud can only be implemented through a Parliamentary majority. 
This means PAS may see its Hudud ambition unlikely to materialise as the party will contest for lesser seats than PKR. It is understood that it will vie for 66 out of the 222 federal seats with most going to PKR. 
Rivals said this reflected PAS’s inferiority in the pact despite the party representing the country’s ethnic majority and highlighted what was said to be a compromise on the Hudud issue. PAS leaders, however, denied they conceded and said they merely “agree to disagree”.

However, please bear in mind what PAS Ulama Council chief Harun Taib has already stated unequivocally “… we will implement … even if not with the current partners we have in Pakatan … may be there will be other pacts that will lend us their support.” 

You know, a leopard never changes its spots!

And the most opportune situation for PAS to realize its dream will be if there is a hung parliament post GE-13.

As a simple example, visualize BN with 111 federal parliamentary seats and Pakatan with also 111 seats, where UMNO holds 45, PAS 35 seats and PKR 40 seats of which 32 have been won by its Chosen Ones.

Under the above posited scenario, Najib will be lucky not to be disowned by UMNO, but let's forget about him. As for the two Pak Hajis, Hadi Awang or even Nik Aziz, you may forget about them bothering to ‘honour’ its pact with DAP, no, not when (what they believe to be) a higher duty calls. Thus, sacrifices even of ‘honour' if not those nebulous quality, political pact and compatriotism', must and will be made, more so when the sacrifice will be a secular DAP wakakaka.

So what or who will hold the Pakatan fort, the last line of defence against a hell-bent-for hudud PAS, so to speak?

It will have to be, yes ;-), none other than manmanlai, wakakaka. But the question has to be 'Will he hold fast?'

'Will he deny a new UMNO-PAS pact his 32 seats held by his inner coterie, and say, regardless he and PKR will stand together with DAP in Pakatan against a breakaway PAS joining up with UMNO in an attempt to form a government which will implement syariah-hudud law to replace Malaysia's civil laws?'

Yes, will he resist the siren call of a turn at being PM, a post he has been dreaming of since 1989?

As those who have visited my blog knows all too well, I have a consistent belief that Anwar Ibrahim is a very selfish politician who only wants to be PM, whatever it takes. And 'whatever it takes' may include the acceptance of a PAS demand for syariah-hudud laws to replace the civil laws of Malaysia.

While I hope such a situation, namely the post-13 GE post scenario I posited above, will not arise to prove my assessment of Anwar Ibrahim correct, it's certainly food for thought. As mentioned, we all have to make sacrifices and I'm more than prepared to make one, to be proven wrong wakakaka.

58 comments:

  1. This is between the rock & a hard place. Fundamentally, the logical conclusion of these groups is theocracy. Although some espouse for milder forms but in its truest form & to be truthful to one's beliefs & call, theocracy does not have a place for secular authorities nor their secular rulers even if they are projected to be custodians of the faith.

    So, with the sudden and unexpected impact of Bersih 3.0, a second wind of boldness has surfaced. Its seems that both for PAS, PKR & DAP, they are nearer their goals although all three hold different visions of their type of government & equity, control of political power or just an utopic paradise on earth where evil is forever banished. The clarion call brings the herds and one's foe isn't as invincible as once thought.

    In the past, the whole concept of theocracy was dished out in doses like the proverbial frog in boiling water but now it looks like a "double down" or nothing.

    Tahrir Sq is an ample modus operandi to follow which follows the Iranian Revolution. Removal of the "oppressors" followed by in-roads by the Brotherhood or whatever else that seeks this utopic dream.

    Unfortunately, the person who wants to be king, can only follow the flow in order to reach those lofty goals. It isn't difficult to fall back on one's old nature or rather second nature of one's youth. The fire in one's loins so to speak (pun intended metaphorically) Just speak the right lingo to the right audience at the right time.

    Again, like you KT, one wonders where DAP stands or rather do not stand on this except our beloved Karpal, the faithful warhorse.

    Without a Third option, Malaysians will finally have to sell out or be sold out. As expressed, the goals are certain, with or without PR, meaning even dealing with the devil.

    Minda Bebas

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  2. "to PAS, Pakatan is a mere convenient stepping stone to its hudud ambition"

    Although the commentary above is very apt for PAS, it can also be applied to DAP. That is why some people (especially fence sitters- the silent majority) are very cautious on what the coalition stands for.

    I have argued with a PR supporter to which I claimed that DAP is just using PAS for their strong Malay/Muslim support.

    It is not just Anwar and his Family who wants their hands on Putrajaya . the Lim's are also very keen on getting that high seat in the administration and they will do almost anything to get there, and this include using PAS as a vehicle. Greed knows no Limits.

    Whatever happens next has not even been planned between the 3 parties. What we see now are just vague, ambiguous policies without no proper execution plan. Reason being is that they know once they're there, they would have to really fight things out. Perhaps DAP and PKR can work together. But DAP and PAS will always be a failed marriage.

    Although PAS is not very vocal about Hudud now, well at least not as how they were 5 years ago, everyone knows Hudud is and will always be their main agenda. You can tell just by looking at the supporters. Hudud this and hudud that.

    If you look at the comments at Malaysiakini, especially when issues such as religion is touched upon (example: Irshad Manji coming to Malaysia, Elton John concert), you will see how these PAS monkeys behave by frequently bringing up the topic of Hudud. There's no winning with people who firmly believe that God has created such a draconian/outdated law towards his creatures.

    If anything goes wrong (only in PAS' eyes- apparently what's wrong and what's right is subjective in this country) it'll always be because the Govt of the day did not implement Hudud.

    This is how PAS win votes, they ride on this sentiment.

    DAP is being quite a hypocrite by not acknowledging this sad fact about PAS.

    Even if Hudud was implemented to Muslims only, it will be highly unfair for the Muslims who opposes it. I, for one, will be packing my bags and find a more suitable place to bring up my future kids.

    And good luck with having 2 sets of law running in parallel. Other countries will laugh at us.

    I applaud Karpal Singh for being so vocal about PAS, but unfortunately this is not enough.

    And PKR is most definitely trying to play it safe without even saying what their stand is when it comes to Hudud. Anwar has always been a chameleon, everyone knows that.

    So let's all be honest here.

    Does DAP know that PAS has always been the champion of Hudud? Yes they do.

    Have PAS always had the knowledge that DAP will be a strong opponent towards the implementation of Hudud law? Yes they do have that knowledge.

    So why on earth are these people sleeping together in the same bed, eating the same breakfast in the morning and taking the same bus to work?

    The reason is people will do almost anything for Power. and this is why I will never vote for PR. Their greed shows as their principles waiver.

    But I'm not going to vote for BN either. So don't get me wrong here. But we’re not talking about them, everyone knows how corrupt they are.

    I am a muslim and a strong opposer of Hudud as interpreted by PAS. By the way, there are no such thing as killing apostates or stoning adulterers in the Quran. Don't believe me? Look it up.

    Political parties that use religion as their cause will most likely be the most corrupt. they will implement rules and say it comes from GOD and the mules will just nod and agree. Mark my words, we are done for if PAS gets a hold of this country.

    Now let's all sit back and watch the TV Series "The Borgias" where it shows how Religion (PAS), Nepotism & Cronism (PKR & DAP) comes together like an orgy at the Playboy mansion. Perhaps we can all learn a thing or two from history.

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  3. "So let's all be honest here."

    kt, is honest on issue that touch on pkr n anwar.

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  4. The whole episode just shows the importance of PKR. A weak PKR is definitely not desirable.

    You may call them mini-UMNO, but can you live with hudud-PAS? or Evil Umno?

    Be realistic here. Please.

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  5. CurryMan,

    The fact is, PKR is weak.

    They can't even manage a clean Party election. Let alone handling PAS & DAP.

    Let alone heading a country.

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  6. In a nutshell : "Telan mati mak, ludah mati bapa"....between a rock and a hard place.

    The party has ended in Malaysia. Those lucky ones with better options, including many Malays, are looking 'outward' as an insurance/escape plan.

    Between a greedy, rapacious bunch of robbers pecking clean the nation's coffer and the zealous 'godly, holy' men hell-bent to shove their so-called god's laws down the people's throats.....we all need to pray like hell that there's no hung parliament when/if PR ever gets to rule.

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  7. These PAS people sure knows how to time their hard-line hudud pronouncements, usually around election time.

    Must be music to UMNO/BN's ears.

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  8. "The fact is, PKR is weak"

    Not for nothing PKR is known as the weakest link in the PR coalition.

    Malaysians difinately got themselves into a tight spot. Right in front, there's the pack of hungry wolves. Just behind them, a bunch of growling, hungry 'holy' men. And in between, a weak, vacillating PM-wannabe.

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  9. Apa salahnya dengan hudud?

    Hudud memberi manfaat kepada non-Muslims kerana negara akan mendapat Muslims yang lebih rajin, law abiding dan beretika.

    Golongan non-Muslims yang menentang hudud adalah seperti berikut

    1. Taukeh judi - sebab jumlah orang Islam yang berjudi akan merosot

    2. Taukeh Arak - sebab jumlah orang Islam yang minum arak akan berkurang

    3. Taukeh rumah pelacuran - sebab jumlah orang Islam yang mengunjungi rumah pelacuran

    4. Pencuri atau bapak pencuri

    5. Kepala perompak

    5. Pembunuh upahan dan orang yang suka mengupah pembunuh upahan

    Saya tidak tahu sama ada Kepala Pencuri, Kepala Perompak, Pembunuh Upahan, Taukeh Judi, Taukeh Arak dan Taukeh Rumah Pelacuran adalah golongan yang mulia di kalangan masyarakat Cina dan India di Malaysia. Kalau masyarakat Cina dan India di Malaysia suka kepada mereka dan suka Muslims menjadi pencuri, perompak, pembunuh, kaki judi, tahi arak dan melanggan pelacur, maka sudah tentu masyarakat Cina dan India di Malaysia akan menentang hudud. Di sini kita tahu niat sebenar masyarakat Cina dan India di Malaysia, sama ada mereka jujur dan mempunyai hati yang bersih terhadap Muslims.

    Begitu juga di kalangan Muslims. Yang menentang hudud ialah golongan tahi arak.

    Non-Muslims tidak perlu gusar kerana yang akan dipotong tangan kerana mencuri ialah Muslims sahaja. Rakyat lain buat apa dipotong tangan jikalau mereka bukan pencuri. Non-Muslims pula boleh memilih Penal Code.

    Yang peliknya kenapa sesetengah non-Muslims suka menyebok dengan hal ehwal Muslims? Kenapa suka campur tangan?

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  10. why waste time deleting those commenters from crackpots.Fuck them off.Good riddance to bad rubbish.

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  11. Pada masa ini Si Taliban boleh berjanji apajua untuk yang bukan muslim. Apabila Si Taliban berkuasa kelak, apa gerenti yang Pak 'Arab-wannabe' itu akan berpegang pada janji-janjinya? Those stupid non-muslims who still want to trust these 'holy' men, you have got to be the most dumb asses in the country. Sure, they are always proud to show how happy the non-muslims are in Kelantan. That's because we have the FEDERAL CONSTITUTION protecting us. Think wisely before you vote. Once the talibans amend the constitution, nasi sudah menjadi bubur. Heck, they might even amend the constitution and take away the rights of the non-muslims to vote. For the sake of my children, I'm voting BN. I'll rather live in Greece than Afghanistan.

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  12. Trust Ktemoc to turn a difficult, painful debate into an attack against his favourite enemy.

    Hudud is primarily a PAS problem, with a side-bar fight between DAP and MCA whether supporting DAP amounts to opening the back door to Hudud...

    The fact is, we need all of PAS, PKR and DAP to counter BN/UMNO. I'm not even talking about winning a majority in the General Election.

    Anwar Ibrahim is trying to walk a tightrope between PAS overt policy to implement Hudud, which scares a lot of Nons and secular Malays, and DAP's Malaysian Malaysia on the other hand, which scares a lot of rural and working-class Malays.

    In fact Anwar is one of the few politicians in Malaysia who has the trust from both sides, whatever you may think of his weaknesses.

    I can forgive him for sometimes speaking in riddles on this issue or refusing to make any commitments either way.
    Sometimes , a straightforward answer is the worst possible answer, and this is one of the situations..

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  13. How brave is Ktemoc speaking about Malaysian politics and affairs; far away from Australia without a face or details of himself.
    He is a coward BN propagandist.

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  14. From the early days until now we have been given countless of reasons why we do not have to fear Pas. That hudud is good. That hudud only applies to muslims. That non-muslims will not be affected. That Pas will not be able to form the government on its own. And now that Pas has admitted that it is willing to team up with anyone to form a government that will implement hudud, what has Dap got to say? Please don't take non-muslims as idiots. Please stop saying that non-muslims will not be affected. Non-muslims are already affected. Just look at Bangi and Shah Alam. Political parties that want to control the people's way of life should never be allowed to rule.

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  15. So, KT, it's clear as the noonday sun. If you don't want to see your sweeties walking around in public wrapped from head to toe in curtains; hairy faces for all men regardless of their religious affiliations; all forms of entertainment banned; and liquor and pork as rare as snow flakes in the Sahara, you should give the Pakatan Riot a wide berth and vote for BN. You and all those who don't want the above coming to pass HAVE NO CHOICE!

    You wrote: "PAS' obsession with bringing in hudud to replace civil laws is not merely confined to the ulamak faction but also the so-called Erdogens ..."

    Well, you didn't, but you really should also, say that the vast majority of PAS' ordinary members and supporters are staunchly for bringing in Hudud.

    Besides egregious treatment of female rape victims, those holy, religious paragons are also known to be enthusiastic practitioners of such things as honor killings of their daughters and sisters; brutal executions of homosexuals; wholesale destruction of ancient, historical artifacts, plus a whole host of other adorable behaviour.

    There, you see? If you don't want to see the human spirit and liberty crushed then there is really only one choice - BN.

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  16. It's accusations and hellucinations that one put put why BN is the only choice.

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  17. http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2012/5/13/nation/20120513153625&sec=nation
    TASEK GELUGOR: Malaysia will revert to the era of 1511, when the bumiputra agenda did not exist, if Barisan Nasional loses in the coming general election, Minister in the Prime Minister's Department Tan Sri Nor Mohamed Yakcop said.

    Don't worry,BN will rule after GE13

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  18. Anonymous 6:04 PM, MAY 13, 2012 said...Malaysia will revert to the era of 1511,...

    If we talk about hudud implementation, an era of 1511 is not true at all. In 1511, it is about protecting the interests of the Malacca Sultan. In fact, Muslims were minorities in Malacca back then (less than 0.5% of the population). The Malacca war was about the Portuguese vs Shamanism. Islam only came into the picture about 50 years after the Malacca conquest.

    What is Malaysia under BN if compared to Lee Hsien Loong's Singapore?

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  19. Ktemoc and his bosses will soon be Bersih'ed out by the people of Malaysia...

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  20. Tanah Melayu...

    You seem not to understand Islam at all. Even Jews can be cabinet ministers in a true Muslim government.

    Talking about hairy faces, don't Sikhs and some form of Hinduism and Judaism promote hairy faces also?

    Pork and liquor are forbidden only to Muslims. Non Muslims can have pork and liquor as much as they can eat. Non-Muslims can eat pork and drink liquor all night long and 7 days a week without any intervention from any JAWI/JAIS enforcers. The non-Muslims can even bonk their extra marital sex partners 100 rounds daily and 365 days a year with or without protection.

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  21. Anonymous said...3:10 PM, MAY 13, 2012

    Why don't you compare with Sri Kembangan? Is it like Bangi?

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  22. Everybody stop bashing KTemoc.He has said many times that this is a non partisan blog.You Umno and Anwarista's lovers please take a hike if your moronic dead brains still doesn't not get it.You partisans get it into that thick nunbskulls of yours.Get lost,you suckers.

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  23. Tanah Melayu, I'll be voting DAP, as before ;-) but I'm now worried about Pakatan people automatically supporting some PAS poeple like Harun Taib, Azizan Abdul Razak and Nasharuddin Mt Isa wakakaka

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  24. If one have no intentions of breaking the law,why worry about hudud.Do not waste your precious time crying about hudud.Use the brains god gave you to think how to kick Umno out of Putrajaya.Hudud is only for lawbreakers.GET IT.Idiots.

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  25. Some morons keep harping all day about hudud.Hudud this,hudud that.Stupid fools.This is not the end of the world unless Umno rules forever.GOT IT,FOOLS.

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  26. A vote for DAP is a vote for PAS in power.

    A vote for DAP is a vote for Hudud.

    Ponder that...

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  27. Especially to the orang-orang Cina and India, dan lain-lain yang bukan Malay Muslims.......there are 2 choices for you people :

    One - you either get bashed almost daily in MSM that you are pendatangs, not quite loyal to raja dan negara, money-obssessed and not quite human like the muslims who are more supreme in this life and the next.

    And get used to the 'Ketuanan' flung to your face and life forever and forever.... read some comments by some very 'civilised and educated' Malays here -

    "The majority of the Malays feel entitled ("from cradle to grave"). A former colleague of mine, at a university, a Malay, used to seriously state that he doesn't have to pay taxes "because this is my country" and only the foreigners and the 'temporary' ones would have to pay taxes, in lieu of rent for being allowed here.

    And, not to be too shy about this, a good number of Malays, when confronted with occurrences of corruption, firstly check on the drain where the moneys flows to. In case the recipient being one of them, they consider the corruption to be kind of 'in order'. Because, and also this is what I have been hearing from some of my Malay friends, "one day [my] day will come, and I will be on the receiving end".

    Another comment by one Occupy Dataran in a previous post here :

    "BN-appointed National Security Council (Perak) assistant secretary Abdul Rahim Abdul Karim ....March 24.

    "The Chinese and Indians were brought in by British colonists only as workers and they do not have the right to claim any privileges. Do not play with fire and do not challenge.”

    Or...the next possible alternative.....you get to live in a 'pure' muslim country with " see(ing) your sweeties walking around in public wrapped from head to toe in curtains; hairy faces for all men regardless of their religious affiliations; all forms of entertainment banned; and liquor and pork as rare as snow flakes in the Sahara" as described by Tanah Melayu.

    Between the deep deep blue sea and the devil ? Which monster do we vote in for the next GE ? BN will most likely drive us to bankruptcy sooner than later. And if the Talibans take over, they will for sure implement more than the Hudud...which is just the very first of their proposal plans for their zealous road to creating a muslim heaven on earth.

    The third force anyone ? Is it too late for Malaysia ?

    ( P.S - Curry Man...is this the type of 'deals' those politicians with the 'smarts' are supposed to have to be able to deal with the devil ? “… we will implement … even if not with the current partners we have in Pakatan … may be there will be other pacts that will lend us their support.” - Pas Ulama Council chief Harun Taib. )

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  28. What do you want PAS to say, KT? That hudud is ancient rubbish not fit for modern times. Then whazt do you call the death penalty which still exist in many so-called liberal, secular countries. People like you and that Kapak Sing should wake up and smell the political reality in Malaysia. By the way your oldtimer DAP chairman amd his oldfart buddies failed to take Penang three times in a row. It took a younger man who understood what Islam means to the Malays to take Penang Stop with your anti-hudud bullshit and leave PKR out of this matter. You are beginning to sound like an MCA-UMNO mutant man. With friends like Karpal Singh the DAP does not need enemies.

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  29. The best way is that most of the Chinamen become staunch Muslims and let them rule Malaysia with piety and wisdom. May Allah let the Chinamen to this path and give them glory and eternal prosperity.

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  30. That "vinnan" of 9:46 PM, May 13, 2012, is NOT me!

    That faggoty, cowardly pimp STOLE my name and wrote that piece of nonsensical garbage with it.

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  31. There's an Anwar misdeed behind every bush...

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  32. Yep monsterball is here.He's such a coward to hide behind aliases.

    Vinnan

    Now you know. I have been a victim so many times. I have said so many, times I did not write it. Yet they did it again and again.
    And I see my name and Bruno are again used here. In previous postings they keep pitting me against supposed Bruno.
    I came here not to quarrel but to present my view-points.
    I vowed to myself that I will just read this blog. But I cant help it when my name is being smeared again.
    Stop this pleeeeeasssse.
    There's no point spit-balling over hudud and PAS and DAP. It will not happen as BN will still rule.
    It's just an academic exercise of what if.
    I was at the Stadium Bukit Jalil gathering to celebrate UMNO's 66th birthday.
    Never have I seen the PM and the 100,000 crowd so spirited that we can see already BN is winning big.
    UMNO members are one again as compared to 2008.

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  33. Just ignore that scum - everyone knows who he is, just a disgruntled nobody trying to find a role somehow for his lonesome self but lacks the ability to provide worthwhile comments. In failing to secure much desired respect, like an ignored kid he indulges in juvenile delinquencies to attract attention, for example, impersonating people and making obscene comments - very low level slug who enjoys such vandalism so much so he wanks himself after each acts of vulgarity. He wanks himself because he has been a failure at Hadyaai where he unsuccessfully attempted to abuse some underage girls wakakaka

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  34. Abuse some underaged girls.Hahaha.No way,Hosay.He cannot get it up even if he wanted too.Hehehe.

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  35. I am a non Malay and non Muslim. I am surprised that non Muslims are so obsessed with the hudud as if we r living a charmed life now . Being called pendatangs under the lordship of the umno tuans while their running dogs MCA and mic sit there do nothing except live off scraps thrown by their tuans tells me I will take my chances with hidud. After all , from what I gather , the non Muslims are treated and respected better by PAS than BN does at state and federal levels . If it means that it gets that little bit harder getting alcohol or gambling , it is a sacrifice many of us are willing to make than to see billions of our money being squandered at all levels of governance by BN that politicians live in luxury while their people suffer.

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  36. Sometimes I think Ktemoc deserves all the shit poured into his blog.
    Look at him talking!
    Is that how a blog owner talk?
    For Buttercup to talk like that, no harm done. He is just a commentator.
    But for Ktee responding to ass salts to wounds with no evidence,that is low class.
    "failure in Hadyaai where he unsuccessfully attempted to abuse some underage girls" shows what a liar he is and an insult to Thai's policemen and Thai laws.
    I am half Thai and let him know, in Thailand, all Thais hate abusing of any kind.
    For what he wrote, the culprit will be arrested immediately and sent to jail for a trial.
    This is not the first time Ktee insult Thailand and their laws.

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  37. He takes pleasure to insult others.
    That's his distinct character.
    Monsterbaby said Ktee is a malicious person; sometime ago.
    I say he is more than that, where describing him was one time ad time again.
    He thinks he is so smart to confuse readers and declare himself a DAP supporter.
    It's like telling Karpal "I support your party but I do not support your choice of Anwar as PM".
    It's idiotic and bloody cunning.

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  38. Minyat Oil, yes, it is a fact that PKR is weak. More of a reason for us to help them instead of bash them.

    Anon 9:08. I don't necessary see PAS as the evil bunch. They have their rights to ask for Hudud, what I am not comfortable is within them some said if not with PR, they would implement with parties outside of PR, I guess that means with evil UMNO.


    That to me is something that seems inconsistent with what they stand for.

    Ideally, it would be nice if the three parties in PR are equally strong. That is the right ingredient. And we have a health opposition front (be it BN or PR) in M'sia.


    I do think we need to take a more inclusive stand to accept some who are supporting BN (civil servants, police, military ppl, BN politicians). So that is to the extend the "dealings" that I think PR should make, but contingent on UMNO must go.

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  39. What hudud.Only law breakers have to be afraid of hudud because they will chop your hands off if you stick it into the cookie jar.And if you commit khalwat they will have that thing chopped off too.So if one does not intend to be a criminal or aldulterer why be afraid of hudud.Cowards or morons,you fools can choose.For me I don't care much about chickens.

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  40. To Monsterball and family and their fans.

    Consider yourself lucky that you are at liberty here to post your shite comments. That you can demonise KT and get away with murder(verbal) here.
    Instead of sticking to the topic, you go rubbishing the genuine commentators.
    Contribute wisely and if you having nothing worthy to say, shut up. Dont display your asinine ways!
    As far as I know, only Rocky and KT allow commentators to condemn them. And Monsterball knows this jolly well.
    Try going to Sakmongkol or Din or Niamah or ole fart Uncle Zorro. You will not get a word published.
    Ole fogey Din will let a few minutes of your comments. And then his wife will come to delete it.
    And he will published the comments from his fans derograting the deleted commentator.
    Sakmongkol is learning that too. He has become another Din where flippant comments from his lickers get a space.
    This is a sample of how Pakatan supporters will act if ever the party comes to power.
    Don't talk about press freedom and democracy, when your blog too is undemocratic and ban comments not on the same page.

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  41. "I'll be voting DAP, as before ;-) but I'm now worried about Pakatan people automatically supporting some PAS poeple like Harun Taib, Azizan Abdul Razak and Nasharuddin Mt Isa wakakaka"

    shallow, as usual, to many voters, there are equally countless reason not to vote dap.

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  42. There are Patriots and Traitors.
    Choose one and talk all the cock and bull you like, but do not talk like ktee.
    He sits at the middle and enjoys mocking and making fools of others.

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  43. There are two types of bloggers.

    One allows all comments through, no matter how abusive, rude, and scatological.

    The other type practises strict censorship.

    Both have their merits, we can't say that one is superior than the other.

    Generally, a mild degree of censorship is necessary, I would think. A blogger has a responsibility to protect innocent people from libellious accusations. There is no totally free speech. Bloggers and commentators can be, and has been, hauled up and charged in court for defamation. So, doing some defensive pruning of potentially litigious comments is necessary.

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  44. Can't handle the truth eh KT? Reality KT means getting your principles to producre results. In politics iy means gettinhg into power. Without powewr to execute your principles you will be just like that Kapak Sing who only knows how to sing and dance but produce no results. to that other piece of shit 'vinnan'. To that other 'vinnan 11:39 PM, May 13, 2012' I existed way before you. Check KT's blog and you will find many articles with my writing style. You motherfucker is the cocksucking imposter.

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  45. Curry Man said..."Anon 9:08. I don't necessary see PAS as the evil bunch. They have their rights to ask for Hudud, what I am not comfortable is within them some said if not with PR, they would implement with parties outside of PR, I guess that means with evil UMNO."

    Did I say PAS is an evil bunch ? I was only asking for your confirmation as to whether this is what you meant when you declared that idealism does not work, that politicians with the 'smarts' must know how to make deals....so would you approve of PAS making deals with the devil ( UMNO lah ) to get into power so as to realise their dream of a 'pure' islamic state ?

    Oh, don't forget your suggestion too of Anwar making deals with UMNO.....like having another scorpene deal ( reaping off the rakyat again lah ), this time giving Anwar 20% to keep him quiet ( or to retire, or whatever ) ?

    Now you suddenly declared that "on contigent, UMNO must go". So what if UMNO absolutely refused to go ? So what sort of deals a "practical and smart politician" could dream up to make sure UMNO go ? Surely not another Scorpene deal...i.e to share the loot ripped off the rakyat ?

    Shouting for democracy, transparency, and accountibility and showing up the rogues/scoundrels that some ( or most ) politicians are does not work for you ? So please pray tell what sort of 'smart deals' could one dream up to ensure UMNO depart from the scene.

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  46. Lim Kam Put said..." He takes pleasure to insult others.
    That's his distinct character.
    Monsterbaby said Ktee is a malicious person; sometime ago.
    I say he is more than that, where describing him was one time ad time again.
    He thinks he is so smart to confuse readers and declare himself a DAP supporter.
    It's like telling Karpal "I support your party but I do not support your choice of Anwar as PM".
    It's idiotic and bloody cunning."

    Hey Lim Kam Put, aka Monster Ball, what's wrong with suporting DAP and wanting to vote for DAP but disagreeing with the party's choice of having Anwar as PM ? Not all PR supporters see Anwar as the saviour and god's gift to mankind lah.

    The 'idiotic and bloody cunning' fella is you lah, Monster Ball. Why must you keep coming back here when you are obviously not welcomed ? So thick-skinned one lah, heh heh.

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  47. Anon 5:55pm,
    “Did I say PAS is an evil bunch ? I was only asking for your confirmation as to whether this is what you meant when you declared that idealism does not work, that politicians with the 'smarts' must know how to make deals....so would you approve of PAS making deals with the devil ( UMNO lah ) to get into power so as to realise their dream of a 'pure' islamic state ? "

    I would certainly not approve PAS making the deal. But I could see why they make the deal. I understand that they have to do what they have to do. They are free to associate with whoever they want, pursue whatever noble causes that they believe in. In fact, it only reinforces my belief that idealism does not work or more importantly, it does not matter. There is really no right and wrong with their actions, especially if they believe they can “change” UMNO in the process. The only important thing is how their actions would hurt PR’s interests and what PR can do to avoid defeat. You make deals to make sure the end justifies the means. What you believe that is right/wrong is certainly not universally right/wrong.

    In fact, if I were PR, I would broadcast publicly and privately that if BN people surrender now (spill beans on all the corruption and evil deeds associated with BN), they will walk free when PR wins the GE. Yes, that would include Shahrizat. Taib I am not so sure…

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  48. Tun Ling I would let him go too...if he can implicate UMNO...

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  49. Would I use taxpayers money to make sure after they talk they would have a good life? Well, maybe... I would certainly consider it...

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  50. Curry Man, you said.." You make deals to make sure the end justifies the means".

    Isn't all this very subjective ? You seemed to contradict yourself with contrary statements with every posting. To the PAS holy men, sleeping with the UMNO devil ( the 'means') is very justifiable for their ends....the 'ends' here meaning an islamic nation with all their islamic laws made supreme.

    And you declared that "I would certainly not approve PAS making the deal". Well, to these holey men, they don't give 2 hoots whether you approve or not.

    And then you go on to say..."There is really no right and wrong with their actions, especially if they believe they can “change” UMNO in the process." Well, Curry Man, there's news for you. Many of us do think that it is certainly not right that these so-called principled, upright, incorruptible, honest men-of-god to cheat and lie to the people with their promise of a 'welfare state' instead of an islamic state, to lure the non Muslims to vote for them and then leave them in a lurch with their intention to now co-operate with UMNO to revert to their islamic state. And to 'change UMNO in the process' ? Are they naive or are you for believing in this ? UMNO to change? hahahahaha...sorry, this really got me into fits of hysteria.

    So Curry Man, there is such a thing as right and wrong, such a thing as human rights, such a thing as democratic process, and such a thing as honouring your words/promise. Let's not be too 'sophisticated' and 'jaded' to think such believers are either naive or stupid.

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  51. Anon 2:54am

    First of all, what I meant with I would certainly not approve basically means I would not like PAS making the deal.

    "Many of us do think that it is certainly not right that these so-called principled, upright, incorruptible, honest men-of-god to cheat and lie to the people with their promise of a 'welfare state' instead of an islamic state, to lure the non Muslims to vote for them and then leave them in a lurch with their intention to now co-operate with UMNO to revert to their islamic state. "

    Well, I guess you see this as a betrayal. In your mind, you have made a judgement that it is morally wrong for them to do so.

    Although I do see betrayal and inconsistencies on their part, but I don't necessary make the judgement like you did that they have done something wrong.

    The fact is they do whatever they think is right. Just because you don't think it is right does not make your viewpoint is valid. What if they tell you GOD instructs them to do so? Which is why it is rather pointless to dwell on what's right or wrong, especially in politics. What only matter is your interests vs your opponent's interests.

    Most people object UMNO is because UMNO threaten the nation's and their interests. Not because of UMNO is morally bankrupt. These are two different things, and it just so they happen together. I just think some people tend to mix them together when they attack UMNO. Well, to be fair, UMNO is the master of such act. But at the end of the day, we all try to maintain our own interests.

    I just think when some people were screaming what is right and what is wrong, they probably did not realize it was self-interests motivated them to do so all along.

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  52. Curry Man.....it is quite pointless to carry on this discussion of what's right and what's wrong when you keep on shifting the goal post.

    For a so-called 'holy' party who supposedly uses 'God' as their rallying call and project a fair, pious and honest image, it is doubly disgusting when they go back on their words and promises after having achieved a certain goal with their false promises to the voters.

    It is certainly not "all in the mind and that's your-own-problem having a certain perception" when voters felt let down and will now onwards no longer trust such party again for making such 180 degree U-turn.

    To the non-Muslim voters and even to some Muslim voters who have come to trust and believe in them, such brazen 'turn around' without a shred of shame and embarassment is just not on. Mind you, to these voters, PAS and Islamic State is an anathema to them right from the beginning, but PR, together with PAS have convinced them otherwise. So much hard work for nothing now that the voters are alerted to their true colours.

    So there is such a thing as right and wrong here as far as these voters are concerned. No amount of fluffing the issue by bringing in nonsensical argument of "what if God told them" to lie.

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  53. "
    It is certainly not "all in the mind and that's your-own-problem having a certain perception" when voters felt let down and will now onwards no longer trust such party again for making such 180 degree U-turn.

    To the non-Muslim voters and even to some Muslim voters who have come to trust and believe in them, such brazen 'turn around' without a shred of shame and embarassment is just not on. Mind you, to these voters, PAS and Islamic State is an anathema to them right from the beginning, but PR, together with PAS have convinced them otherwise. So much hard work for nothing now that the voters are alerted to their true colours. "

    I think you are still seeing it from one perspective.

    Suppose when the husband and wife got into a marriage. Before the marriage, it was known that the wife had this desire to go to a far away place. The husband, for personal reasons, would never want to visit this place. He also did not understand why the wife wanted to go there. The husband married this wife anyway, because he knew the wife lacked the $$$ to go to this far away place. There was love, but there was also this unfulfilled dream on the part of the wife. So one day the wife met a rich guy who was willing to bring her to this far away place. People all knew this rich guy made the offer with evil intention to break up the marriage. But the wife left anyway.

    Was there a betrayal? yes. Would the husband feel bitter about it? Most likely. Is the wife stupid to go with this rich guy? Maybe.

    Is the wife wrong for leaving? There is really no answer for this question.

    The husband knew full well this was the dream for the wife when he got into the marriage. Apart from love, this dream was something that was very important for the wife. The husband took the risk, married the lady, enjoyed the the love while ignored the sad feeling that came with unfulfilled dream.

    To set the record straight, the wife never said she would give up the dream. Her exact words were eventually she would leave if she could. The husband agreed to marry her anyway, thinking she couldn't breakaway.

    so should you blame the wife? or the husband? you get it? there is no right or wrong in this.

    sure people close to the husband blame the wife. so long that you know that's just for making the husband looks good, or the wife looks bad.

    But we have to be honest that eventually they all did what was in their best interests. There is really no holier side in the whole episode.

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  54. Hahaha...oh Curry Man, I don't know whether to laugh or to cry when you bring up such...such..err, I am truly lost for words to describe the sorts of analogy/examples you somehow bring up here to prove your point.

    Your use of the above husband/wife analogy is so simplistic and also not appropriate for the PAS' brouhaha situation.

    PAS made a PROMISE to the voters..."Vote Us, Don't be Afraid, There is NO Islamic State, which will be replaced with a Welfare State".

    Then when the votes came trooping in and PAS got to rule an extra state in Kedah and have big say in Selangor as well, they conveniently forget their promise, turned arrogant and threatened to sleep with the devil in order to revert back to their old dream which they know full well does not go down well with those new voters who brought them to this level of success.

    What do you call men, much less 'holy, upright, trustworthy' men, who goes back on their promise, and turned 180 degree ? Please do not say God urged them to lie lah, thus there's no right or wrong here.

    Your broad brush of "there's no right or wrong' is a real cop out to justify for all sorts of shenanigans to be carried out with impunity.

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  55. Anon 9:07pm

    come on... PAS never said they would give up Islamic State, they just said it was not feasible at the time.

    They merely told the voters there is another side of them, which is consistent with what others in PR stand for, that is the welfare state. The welfare state slogan was never a "replacement" for hudud.

    Guess who were sugar-coating the whole deal at that time??? "Even PAS wanted to implement hudud, they couldn't, they didn't have enough seats, blah blah blah" and now you "conveniently" believing your own sweet talk?

    PAS stands for something that is very different from DAP and PKR. No one should or can force them to change. Just like no way PAS can tell DAP to accept hudud.

    I think the earlier PR comes to the sense that PAS will leave one day the better. And you really can't blame them for doing so.

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  56. Look Curry Man....I am one of those who hated the guts of Dr M but I have always agree with him, from day one, that the the tie-in between DAP and PAS is just a sham of convenience, like oil and water, the two shall never complement each other, ever. Logically it does not make sense, theocracy and secularism. So who is "conveniently" believing 'your own sweet talk?'

    These wily politicians in their holy garb are past masters at manipulation....like most politicians, haha. Different statements for different crowds, and lulling the potential voters, when not to raise 'sensitive' issues, although the recent Harun Taib's arrogance seemed to be a mis-step ? In this era of the internet, it is not easy to confine their words to just a specific target group without others getting to know too.

    But the issue here is about what is right and what is wrong, isn't it ? Or rather, there's "no right and no wrong" as you put it.

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  57. haha, I actually have no problem with the PAS and DAP marriage. Why not enjoy the love if you could.

    The important thing is to realize one day the wife may leave. I would rather the husband sends his blessings, rather than getting all bitter, screaming betrayal, etc.

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  58. Enjoy the love, Curry Man ? haha

    More like putting on a show...just like some celebrity marriages that now featured so popularly on those Reality Shows.

    These politicians mean business...they are deadly serious...to get power in whatever ways they could, to implement their plans and policies once in power. That's what political parties do.

    The ones screaming betrayals and getting bitter are the voters who feel cheated. So the politicians will run helter skelter to do damage control every now and then when indiscretion or arrogance or impatience or their true colours got the better of them.

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