In Malaysiakini news article on the abandoned forum on ‘Conversion to Islam’, titled Bar Council's forum: More shelling for police, protesters we are informed that 12 NGOs and (amazingly) the MCA including Ong KT came out to condemn the bully-boy tactics of some Muslim protestors a la Apcet II as well as the all-too-ready capitulation of the police to those thugs.
One Malaysiakini reader was heard to say that no doubt the police would have acted differently if those hooligan protestors were Hindraf members or non-Muslims.
Rare would be the Muslim politicians who dared to support the forum. Not even the world’s greatest deformasi leader attempted to peek out of the turtle shell he has suddenly hidden within.
On the other hand his Kulim Wonder, Zulkifli Noordin, according to Malaysiakini, were among those entering the auditorium to disrupt the forum, and had also called on the already infuriated crowd to storm the building should the forum continue. It would seem that someone in PKR had to wave the flag!
Such has been and will be the emotion that some Muslims feel about any form of discussions on inter-faith relationship that they would pre-empt any such discussions by launching aggressive actions to disrupt, derail and discourage its eventuating.
So disgraceful had been the behaviour of those thuggish protestors that Malaysiakini tells us even Pergerakan Progresif Mahasiswa Islam (Promis) and Jaringan Rakyat Tertindas (Jerit) condemned the aggressive nature of the demonstration for not even bothering to find out whether the forum would in fact be insulting Islam.
A spokesman for Promis said: “The use of abusive language, aggression and threats to halt the forum are un-Islamic, undemocratic and goes against the principles of Islam. We also condemn the act of passing judgment on the forum based on assumptions only.”
kaytee’s take is that ethno-centric interests were more prominent than Islamic piety, where abuses degenerated to ‘babi’ and ‘balik China’. Those racist remarks were an affront to the dignity of Islam but the so-called Muslim perpetrators didn’t give a shit, did they?
Oh no, not when the most important by-election in Malaysia for the last 50 years is just around the corner.
Permatang Pauh!
UMNO leaders said the forum would be insensitive and thus wasn't favoured. Anwar said while he’s liberal, he too (like AAB) wasn't in favour of such a forum - meaning he wasn’t liberal, not with Permatang Pauh in mind – but then that sort of double talk has been precisely what MCA Youth Chief Liow Tiong Lai had described about Anwar, as reported by Malaysiakini in its MCA attack on Anwar draws PKR's ire.
The olde UMNO’s ‘agama, bangsa, dam negara’ have been adopted by UMNO, PKR and PAS in a bid to win the hearts and minds of the heartland.
But the sad part has been that agama dan bangsa have been rolled into one, but with bangsa predominating, as to be expected of the component with base values. To PAS’ credit, the racist sickness seemed to have affected mainly UMNO and PKR thugs.
Yes, currently no UMNO or PKR Malay leader like Anwar would want to touch the issue with a ten foot pole, with probably the sole exception being socialist Dr Syed Husin who was pissed off with Zulkifli Noordin.
Any attempts to hold such a dialogue or forum would be a Sisyphean endeavour. Most Muslims would understandably be suspicious of the non-Muslim motives whilst the non-Muslims would be stressed, frustrated and angry by what they see as a proselytizing Islamic movement encroaching into their lives and rights.
Body snatching in some instances caused by overzealous Islamic officers or the consequences of the sinister motives of certain family members of the deceased who saw personal advantage in having their dead relative ‘become’ a Muslim.
Conversion by one spouse in an already broken marriage, again in a few cases, brought about by similar sinister exploitation of Islam to benefit a specific spouse, have all added to the anger, animosities and anxieties.
Then we mustn't forget the UMNO Education Minister who introduced compulsory (i.e by compulsion) the weekly baca doa in Malaysian schools even for non-Muslim studnets - a disturbing disgusting disgraceful proselytizing pundee policy of deformasi - no doubt to enhance political popularity in an ambitious meteoric career path.
Years ago, a 13 or 14-year old Chinese girl was technically raped and kidnapped by her Malay teacher when they eloped. When the teenager’s parents sought justice in the civil court system to have their 14-year old daughter returned rightfully to their parental care, the civil court judges (all Malay Muslims) let them totally down, abandoning the law and legal precedence.
Who had insulted Islam then? Who had misused and subverted the good name of Islam for their own interests, personal and political? Who had shown the world that a Muslim could rob the cradle with impunity to have a sexual relationship with an underage girl? And I am not talking about Malacca but Kelantan!
While an open forum may not be ideal for our Malaysian mentality as yet, if there was any insult to Islam, I would say thus far it was not perpetuated by non-Muslims.
Talking about "sexual relationship with an underage girl" in Malacca, this comment (below) appeared in The People's Parliament post on Marina Mahathir.
ReplyDelete# Hi&Lo Says:
July 7, 2008 at 9:15 pm
"However, during the Guan Eng’s trial over the underaged girl, Marina was called to the witness stand on the basis of her opinion piece on Rahim Tamby Cik. She distanced herself from her own writing. This destroyed all the credibility I held for her."
http://harismibrahim.wordpress.com/2008/07/07/blogger-strike-2/
Thuggish behaviour by those jumping on the bandwagon not limited to protesters. It's also evident in blogosphere's follow-the-leader venting and Marina started the bandwagon rolling for Badawi-bashing with her post http://rantingsbymm.blogspot.com/2008/07/is-this-for-real.html
You need to understand the mindset of these buggers. To them, conversion to islam would not only (1)"save" the souls of those converts from the fires of hell,
ReplyDelete(2)bring merits in the afterlife for those who succeeded in converting kafirs,
(3)but also increases the number of that religion's adherents.
That's why it is a death penalty for a muslim to turn apostate, like Linda No-Joy...
By this, It seems that our racial unity and harmony is getting worse day by day. Everyone should realize about this. I don't want to see this country fall apart without racial harmony. We need to cooperate together to overcome this problems, government's effort is not good enough.
ReplyDeleteMalaysia is a nation divided by race and religion. There is no escaping the fact.
ReplyDeleteI don't see Anwar Ibrahim's position as double faced. He's a devout Muslim who is trying to bridge the divide. He has many flaws, and he may yet fail. But at least he is trying. Anwar did not speak against the forum. He was not in favour of an open public forum. I don't agree, but that's not the same as the goons who broke up the forum.
I've been following Anwar's talk since his release from prison in 2004. He's been very consistent, he doesn't propse different policies in front of a Malay audience and in front of a Chinese audience.
On the international stage, Anwar has been one of the respected proponents of dialogue between Islam and the West. Anwar Ibrahim was Distinguished Visiting Professor at George Washington University, where he lectured on Islamic Civilisation and the West.
He has an international reputation on the subject of interfaith dialogue, one of the main reasons he is very well regarded in Western intellectual circles.
UMNO's position is Ketuanan Melayu and Ketuanan Islam. MCA's position is to be a lap-dog, and "explain" UMNO's position to the Chinese community. Their little squeaks about the forum's breakup are inconsequential as far as BN policy is concerned, which is the same as UMNO policy.
Kaytee
ReplyDeleteLooks like you have quite a lot of followings in Susan blog
kittykat46 (08:39:51) :
I recommend Kayteemoc for the Star writer’s position. He resume is ideal for their purposes.
hutchrun (08:42:06) :
Hey kittykat46 (08:39:51) you are right on target. That chap`s a toilet expert too.
Indeed, that kooky comet is cut out for the Star job….in orbiting Uranus.
wandererAUS (09:35:31) :
Kittykat46;
I am in full agreement with you as far as K Temoc is concerned, yes, most suitable…. that son-of-bit*h has only rubbish in his head.
Like Star, worth 2ct
Jed Yoong (09:57:34) :
Kitty,
Are you sure KT isn’t at The Star already?
How ironical these people can be poking fun of others ?
Its a minefield to start with. All this while there were electrified fences separating the field, now the current is weak and naturally human tends to plunge into this greenfield despite warning of the mines. Rather than taking time to chart out and separate the mines from the fields, some of us went on a 'direct' path to get across. Should let the 'minelayers' themselves diffuse the mines rather than sending minesweepers.
ReplyDeleteWhole-heartedly agree with you, Kaytee. It wasn't the forum that was insulting to Islam, but the action and behavior of the protesters.
ReplyDeleteInterestingly enough, another interfaith dialog was being conducted at UM on the same day. No protest though - but I'm not one bit surprised.
One of the participants of the UM dialog was ACCIN, who are closely linked to Pembela and the other Malay/Muslim (and Malay-wannabe) NGOs who were so upset with the Bar Council forum.
Double standards? Hypocrisy?
Well, yes, but in addition it just shows that the outrage had little to do with "protecting Islam". It's no secret that there's big chip on the shoulders of these NGOs (in the coalition) in as far as the Bar Council is concerned.
From the various commentaries and comments I've seen on the 'Net (blogs, YouTube, etc.) it's very clear that most people didn't even know what the forum was about, nor the fact that several prominent Muslims from authoritative bodies were invited (the Wilayah Islamic department guy declined, however). The forum was never in any way about Islam-bashing, or bashing anybody.
Mob mentality, fueled by encouraged ignorance, at its best...
Taken at face value, what I can conclude is that when one of their own conduct a forum (even an open forum), it's A-OK, but not anyone else.
Hypocrisy? Double-standards?
Draw your own conclusion...
Looks like the only way out of this predicament is for non-muslim couples planning on marriage to sign pre-nuptial agreements which states out clearly the annulment and settlement of the above marriages in civil courts should one partner decides to embrace islam
ReplyDeleteUMNO has tried eveything including saifool a88hole!
ReplyDeleteis not working their ultimate weapon.
So what else?
Play with ISLAM!
To me what is wrong with the Bar Council's Forum is the TITLE OF THE FORUM itself.. if the put it as The Amendment Of MArriage Law in Both Civil and Syariah Law,i think it will create all this nonsense..
ReplyDeleteHow can they Bar Council cannot even think about it??? You even know how MUSLIM will react to this but still you choose to ignore it..
HAiyaa perkara mudah pun tak boleh fikir ke??
Maybe next time BAR Council can invoke so that MALAYSIA to enact LAW to ban gambling in all form so that PEOPLE,WIFE,CHILDREN,SPOUSE can life happily without worrying being chase by ALONG.. Maybe Bar Council can also prepare a LAW that give prevent LIQOUR as it know as an agent in stimulating domestic violence.. will they do it??
islam is not evil.dont blame islam.blame the people that use Islam to cover and justify their wrong doing.
ReplyDeletei'm as a muslim also feel ashamed of the racial slur made by other muslims to another race/religion.this is not right.the attitude of "holier-than-thou" should not be practised.
1 no forum , no racial slur
ReplyDelete2 muslim groups say cancel the
forum
3 barcouncil refuse to bow to
demand
4 sh*t happened
5 now the blame is on muslim
que bono?
No, the blame is NOT on Muslims. It's on racists, for exhibiting inexcusable racism and thuggism, as well as insulting Islam.
ReplyDeleteThe BAR council kenw the consequences they had to face when creating such forum, which were earlier protest by the muslims, why did they refuse to respect their decision and still continue doing the forum. Now they must pay for their mistake. No offense in making such forums but its not the right moment where unstability political agendas is stil raoming. They should considers these matter before deciding to do such forums. So I would said that the BAR councils are guilty for the incidents occured.
ReplyDeleteKaytee - apologies in advance, but I felt I had to respond to a couple of the comments.
ReplyDeleteIskandar - do you not find it disturbing that the title alone can invoke that much wrath? What's worse, those involved with the protest (which was very well organized - raising a number of other questions) were so incensed with the title, and ASSUMED what the forum was about, without bothering with who the invited panelists were. Implying that based on this alone their actions were "justified" is equally disturbing. The fact that Haji Sulaiman (former Bar president) and his wife, Prof Mehrum, were both there indicates that the forum couldn't have possibly been about Islam bashing, as accused by the NGOs, who also REFUSED the invitation to join in the forum constructively.
pureheart - you said "why did they [the Bar Council] refuse to respect their [Muslim NGOs]decision". First of all, respect is earned, not demanded. Using the same reasoning, why couldn't the Muslim NGOs "respect" the Bar Council's decision to hold the forum? Or, at the very least, attend the forum in a constructive manner.
The action of the Muslim NGOs on Saturday have done NOTHING to defend Islam. On the contrary, they have reinforced the belief that Muslims are irrational and overly emotional. What these NGOs did, in fact, achieved the reverse.
Adverse anger based purely on conjecture and assumptions, and refusal to dialog... what kind of positive image of ANY organization can that paint?
At the heart of the problem is this:
ReplyDeleteTo many Malay, Islam is a convenient smokescreen for Ketuanan Melayu... even though many of them are practical atheists and animists... their lives are NOT guided by the teaching of Islam at all - as has been ably pointed out by a few good Muslims like Raja Petra.
Many of them carry the label 'Islam' because they were born into that religion, and remain in that religion by coercive forces, not voluntarily. It is not a religion that they embrace willingly and intelligently in adulthood. It would be very different if it were so.
The olde UMNO’s ‘agama, bangsa, dam negara’ have been adopted by UMNO, PKR and PAS in a bid to win the hearts and minds of the heartland
ReplyDelete========
in simple language or term that we hear everyday, it is KETUANAN MELAYU although I believe that KETUANAN ISLAM is more apt.
yes, this is the product of Ketuanan Melayu. Since time immemorial, UMNO has been using this bully tactic to force the others into submission and never question them. although this round, we have combo of UMNO/PKR/PAS, the clear evident is that Ketuanan Melayu has etched deeply into the heart of ALL Malays.
oink oink, I disagree completely with your sweeping statement of "Ketuanan Melayu has etched deeply into the heart of ALL Malays."
ReplyDeleteI have Malay mateys like Jamal (walski69), Sharina Shahman, Marina Mahathir and many many others who don't belong to, nor need to belong that group.
Our education system really screwed-up the moral value in this boleh-land. Some of the comments here clearly show that the Boleh-landers cannot differenciate between right or wrong..... e.g. muslim group says no, so, must cancel, Not the right moment, use of wrong title, etc. These are all lame excuses to justify for the disgraceful protest. No difference from hooligan.
ReplyDeleteTo all Non Muslim Malaysians,
ReplyDeleteWhat is so fucking wrong for the Bar Council to hold the talk? Why we non muslim must always be afraid of these so called muslims. Malaysia is our country and we will not allow the stupid ignorant bigots to screw us by telling us this is their country and all Chinese and Indians to balik negeri.The constituiton is still secular. Tell these idiotic bigots to shut the fuck up.If we have to take arms to defend our self, so be it. I am not going to allow any fucking stupid ignorant muslim to tell me what to do. Stop being nice. The only way to bring this goverment down is to revolt against them. If anwar loses this by election, non muslim including moderate muslims will suffer.People power is great and lets use it to the betterment of Malaysia as a whole.