In that FMT article Keningau Diocese Bishop Cornelius Piong said the church’s clergymen act as the leaders who unite the faithful under their guardianship.
“This is why, in my opinion, a priest cannot afford to side with any political party.
“If he does that, if he supports one particular party, what about the parishioners who are not supporters of that party?”.
Bishop Cornelius Piong stated that 'The Catholic Church has always been non-partisan when it comes to politics' but I have reservations about his word 'always', because that has not been so.
Let me take you back to 2012, precisely to 07 August 2012, when FMT published GE 13: What would Jesus do?:
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according to experts commissioned by BBC to portray best likely image for Jesus |
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as West Europeans imagine Jesus to be |
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as South Koreans see Jesus |
The news online portal informed us about a public forum in PJ Section 8, at the Dignity International, A-2-7 Pusat Perdagangan, regarding the then pending 13th general election, as seen from a Christian perspective.
In that forum the topic was 'What will Jesus be doing in Malaysia today?' with speakers Rev Dr Hermen Shastri and Paul Sinnappan.
Two clerics telling us about Jesus who was crucified two thousand years ago and by the year 2012, a very much dead Jew or for the faithful, now in Heaven with his Father, what He (Jesus) would do in GE13.
Thus, in reality, what Jesus would do in GE-13 would be what those two clerics personally wanted to do, unless they could prove Jesus communicated with them in His intention regarding GE14.
Very naughty of priests to use Jesus' name like so. And this admonition from kaytee applies to priests of other religions.
Very naughty of priests to use Jesus' name like so. And this admonition from kaytee applies to priests of other religions.
They (those two priests) then berated church people who were 'fence sitters' urging them to make a choice for change, thus telling the parish to vote for the Opposition to effect a change of government.
When a cleric holds a position of respect, esteem and much influence in the community, and urges his parish to vote for either A or B, he is/was using his esteemed influence to interfere and intervene in politics - that's f**king dangerous and a case of the Church interfering with the State.
We already have the ulamaks doing that and have been sick of their regular interference in secular affairs. Thus we don't need Christian priests to follow suit as well.
He said that taking part in Bersih 5, which dear Bishop Piong claims to be apolitical (ie. NOT political or NOT politically aligned), was a citizen’s right and not a matter of party politic.
Leaving aside the then wretched proclivity of Maria Chin, Bishop Bernard Paul then urged Malaysians to take part in the Bersih 5 rally and “to claim [Malaysia] back from destructive leaders”.
Leaving aside the then wretched proclivity of Maria Chin, Bishop Bernard Paul then urged Malaysians to take part in the Bersih 5 rally and “to claim [Malaysia] back from destructive leaders”.
What would that make of Bishop Bernard Paul, from being supposedly a "apolitical" cleric, when he accused some politicians of being "destructive leaders"?
Was that his role as an apolitical priest?
BTW, who were the destructive leaders? Lim Kit Siang? Pak Haji Hadi Awang? Najib Razak? Mahathir? Lim Guan Siew? Ayah Pin?
Shouldn't Bishop Bernard Paul have explained why they were destructive? Or, were his words as a cleric supposed to imply they were words of his God and thus not/never to be questioned? That Catholic priest was no better than the ulamaks.
Anyway I wish to say this again about Bishop Bernard Paul, that he seemed to lack understanding of the doctrine of separation of church from the state.
He told politicians who criticised his political move to grow up, but I did then say he was the one who needed to grow up most.
Now, it seems Bishop Bernard Paul is back, calling on the Christian community to pray for change in the 14th general election. WTF is a Catholic priest to advocate political changes?
In one of his two circulars, dated 11 April, Bishop Bernard Paul said:
"Once we freed ourselves from the colonial rule; now we are labouring to free ourselves from oppressive demoralising 'deadwoods', who lie to themselves, that they 'mendahulukan rakyat' (put the people first)".
Wakakaka, he has riled PAS which has accused him of insulting the rulers - but he's now on very very dangerous grounds with the PAS-Malay accusation hanging over his head like the Sword of Damocles.
For more see Malaysiakini's Hadi zooms on bishop urging change, makes GE14 challenge.
For more see Malaysiakini's Hadi zooms on bishop urging change, makes GE14 challenge.
In my post last year, I advised Bishop Bernard Paul not to go too far, and not to forget that in December 1972 in Sabah, the late Tun Mustapha, then CM of that state, expelled several Roman Catholic priest for allegedly interfering in local politics.
I hope this won't happen to Bishop Bernard Paul who was born in Alor Setar, thus a Malaysian, and/or other Catholic priests or even the Catholic Church, but he must be mindful of the reality that especially the Catholic or Other Christian Church must NOT interfere with Malaysian politics, as it might rile clerics of the Islamic faith, as it obviously has with Hadi Awang who I suspect is keen to have a fuss, sensation, incident to boost the Islamic Guardian credentials of his party on the eve of GE14.
Commander (rtd) S Thayaparan wrote in Malaysiakini's Keep our places of worship out of the election (extracts):
... you are just giving Umno propagandists ammunition when church leaders urge their flock to directly engage in the political process, and in substance, choose a side. When you do that, you become political targets.
You really think that the Umno state would not use this as an opportunity to deflect and engage in propaganda operations against religious institutions in this country?
Or do these non-Muslim religious leaders think that because possible victory is at hand, they can play fast and loose with their words. For heaven's sake, look at how the state polices the Islamic faith.
Dangerous times
These are dangerous times for non-Muslims in this country. We are heading into an election where we could finally have a two-party system. We could finally change the direction of this country. This is an opportunity for the opposition and those who support it to demonstrate that the secular impulses of the opposition is stronger than the religious imperatives of the Umno establishment, even though we have in the opposition many from the Umno establishment.
Because of the compromised composition of the opposition, the only real shield we have against the religious imperatives of the state is for the opposition to keep a strict separation between mosque and state, church and state, and temple and state.
This is not the time for non-Muslim religious leaders of any religion to step into the political arena. This is a time of circumspection. This is a time when non-Muslims religious leaders should be encouraging brotherly love - to use Abrahamic nomenclature - and "not carpooling and overcoming obstacles", which is exactly the strategies of the opposition.
Mind you, those are good things, but non-Muslim religious leaders should be above the fray. Religious people will vote the way how they choose to vote, but this is not the time for non-Muslim religious leaders to overtly take sides. This is not the time for non-Muslim religious leaders to decide that it okay to step into the political arena and supply the faithful with religious bromides and silently pray for regime change in a country where the Muslim population is at war with itself.
Is it any wonder that the average Malay, already narcotised with propaganda of religion and race, views the inclusion of church politics as anything other than an attempt to subvert ‘bangsa’ and ‘agama’ in this country?
Indeed, this is not the time for the non-Muslim religious leaders to think they have the upper hand because the Malay polity is split. This is not the time for non-Muslim religious leaders to issue overt messages of regime change merely because they think the regime is weak.
Amen, and with respect to My Lord, Bishop Bernard Paul, please shut your Right Reverend's mouth up tightly.
I hope this won't happen to Bishop Bernard Paul who was born in Alor Setar, thus a Malaysian, and/or other Catholic priests or even the Catholic Church, but he must be mindful of the reality that especially the Catholic or Other Christian Church must NOT interfere with Malaysian politics, as it might rile clerics of the Islamic faith, as it obviously has with Hadi Awang who I suspect is keen to have a fuss, sensation, incident to boost the Islamic Guardian credentials of his party on the eve of GE14.
Commander (rtd) S Thayaparan wrote in Malaysiakini's Keep our places of worship out of the election (extracts):
... you are just giving Umno propagandists ammunition when church leaders urge their flock to directly engage in the political process, and in substance, choose a side. When you do that, you become political targets.
You really think that the Umno state would not use this as an opportunity to deflect and engage in propaganda operations against religious institutions in this country?
Or do these non-Muslim religious leaders think that because possible victory is at hand, they can play fast and loose with their words. For heaven's sake, look at how the state polices the Islamic faith.
Dangerous times
These are dangerous times for non-Muslims in this country. We are heading into an election where we could finally have a two-party system. We could finally change the direction of this country. This is an opportunity for the opposition and those who support it to demonstrate that the secular impulses of the opposition is stronger than the religious imperatives of the Umno establishment, even though we have in the opposition many from the Umno establishment.
Because of the compromised composition of the opposition, the only real shield we have against the religious imperatives of the state is for the opposition to keep a strict separation between mosque and state, church and state, and temple and state.
This is not the time for non-Muslim religious leaders of any religion to step into the political arena. This is a time of circumspection. This is a time when non-Muslims religious leaders should be encouraging brotherly love - to use Abrahamic nomenclature - and "not carpooling and overcoming obstacles", which is exactly the strategies of the opposition.
Mind you, those are good things, but non-Muslim religious leaders should be above the fray. Religious people will vote the way how they choose to vote, but this is not the time for non-Muslim religious leaders to overtly take sides. This is not the time for non-Muslim religious leaders to decide that it okay to step into the political arena and supply the faithful with religious bromides and silently pray for regime change in a country where the Muslim population is at war with itself.
Is it any wonder that the average Malay, already narcotised with propaganda of religion and race, views the inclusion of church politics as anything other than an attempt to subvert ‘bangsa’ and ‘agama’ in this country?
Indeed, this is not the time for the non-Muslim religious leaders to think they have the upper hand because the Malay polity is split. This is not the time for non-Muslim religious leaders to issue overt messages of regime change merely because they think the regime is weak.
Amen, and with respect to My Lord, Bishop Bernard Paul, please shut your Right Reverend's mouth up tightly.
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STFU |
The Church did not condemn or endorse any political party for the elections.
ReplyDeleteThat is good enough to be non-partisan.
The Church having a say on socio-political economic issues is not wrong, as long as they do not oppose or endorse any political party.
This is Not PAS play.
And you can? Will support people like maryam lee.....
ReplyDeleteFew thousand km behind enemy lines
Whoah! Lei hai tak geh
Now u r taking the fight for hadis!
ReplyDelete"In his message published yesterday in PAS party organ Harakah, Hadi said:
“Kalau para ulama PAS yang berjubah dan berserban turun ke medan bertanding pilihan raya menjadi calon, maka saya juga mencabar supaya mereka itu terjun ke medan politik bersama parti yang dipilihnya tanpa mencabut jubah paderi yang dipakai itu.”
Mentioning “mereka itu” (passage excerpted above), Hadi was throwing the gauntlet at Bishop Bernard Paul, who earlier in his official pastoral letter, had urged the Christian congregation to vote for regime change on May 9."
Bravo!
Atheist? My foot lah.
From MKINI (extracts):
DeleteWhile it appeared that the bishop's "deadwoods" reference was aimed at the BN-led government whose slogan is "People First, Performance Now", Hadi seemed to interpret it as belittling the Malay rulers.
"We can read the implied meaning from the statement which is to sideline Islam from the Federal Constitution and belittle the rulers who are the head of religion and were likened to deadwood," he said.
CK, learn how to read English lah, starting with A, B and C, wakakaka
DeleteDont talk so much, kaytee. Dare to appear naked in front of hadi to tui lam him.
DeletePicture please
Hohoho! CK has neither grasp of language, arithmetic, nor history. Seems like he never went to school before.
DeleteWho's playing semantics?
DeleteI quote Harakah verbatim & u play with anglicized version in MKINI!
Who doesn't learn how to read English (Melayu) lah!
Wa lau-eh, some more cheering on by an equally blur undead!
When have u started to keep hantu polong as a pet?
Don't u afraid of karma? Even an atheist MUST have some ethical standard lah…… tsk… tsk
what......john got 72 old virgins to accompany when he mati....more hodoh than witches......hahahahaha
DeleteMmmm....bukan saja religious fanatic, but also bodoh sombong. Accusing someone as having "neither grasp of language, arithmetic, nor history.....Seems like he never went to school before" this poh lam par is so arrogantly dumb that it's almost funny....so impressed with his own superficial and most time pathetic so-called analysis, all woven in wordy syntax that's only so much noise but no impact. Such conceit !
DeletePonder this quote : "he has more talent/brilliance in his little pinky than you in your whole body." Struck a cord ? wakakakkaa
Hohoho! Given the article context, might as well give me 72 choir boys.
DeleteBut personally, I prefer giving me 72 prostitutes anytime. Virgins are too inexperienced to have fun with.
Are Malaysians all still stupid and easily mesmerised by Political preachers who preach politics?
ReplyDeleteIf that is so, it's time to ask political preachers to form their own political religious parties just like PAS.
Political preachers are just opportunists just like any normal politician. The added advantage for them is that they abuse their own religious flocks by making them believe they are messengers of The Almighty or Prophets and hence to be obeyed without thinking in any political issues.
So, what happened to political Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, Bahais etc priests and preachers? Are they exempted?
Moslems about 70%, Christians <10% and the rest about 20%>.
What's the problem again?
political Hindus - Hindraf
DeleteYes. Maryam lee is one of them
DeleteThe Catholic Church is hardly the paragon of virtue, from their questionable foundings up til today's their propensity to Anwar their choir boys. They are the last person to tell us what is right and what is wrong.
ReplyDeleteYa lor....how dare Catholic Church dares claim being a paragon of virtue or anything good. There's ONLY one religion in the world that is vely vely good and virtuous with impeccable "foundings".
DeleteThe only last person to tell us what is right or wrong is your Hadi and Ktemoc, wakakkaaka. Oops...musn't leave out that kelentong raja in Manchester...nanti merajuk lah. Takut kalau dia tu merajuk...semua cina kena hantam kau kau lagi sampai nak mampus, hihihihi
No religion can claim to be virtuous becoz none of their followers are virtuous. Humans are flawed creatures and the religions of today reflect on these flaws. But while Islam has always been open about involvement in politics, Christianity & Judaism otoh has always maintained a hidden hand while extending their tentacles silently. (Buddhism in a true way, isn't a religion, so its not brought into the picture).
DeleteIn that sense, the more open and transparent religion would seem more virtuous, no?
There you go again...first you like to start off with some platitudes the banality of which is downright tiresome and boring. Then you trotted out some lame analysis which is not only so far off from earth-shaking but are in fact spurious and even illogical. Then you come to a conclusion that's so twisted that it only reflected your own bias and personal preference.
DeleteObviously from the above, you are insinuating that Islam religion is the "more open and transparent religion", therefore more virtuous. Balik balik, hanya agama kau saja la yang best sekali, wakakakaka.
There's no openness or transparency involved lah...right from the start, there is no separation between religion and politics in Islam. The close connection between the two was established in the earliest days of the faith, when the Prophet Muhammad was considered to be both a religious guide and a political leader. No such quality of virtue involved either as alluded by you, whatever was meant by it, wakakkaka.
Whereas in the more developed governments of nowadays, religion is no longer that fundamental; the starting points are democracy and the rule of law, which sees the people much more liberated from the rigid dictates of religious control.
I have a question to kaytee. Ah so desmond tutu cannot talk bad about south african apartheid govt. Yes or no?
ReplyDeleteTime to ask ronnie cheng if he knows who kaytee is.
catholic help the poor regardless of race n religion.
ReplyDeleteDesmond tutu was an anglican priest. Can cheebye kaytee fly to south africa to tell him not to meddle in politics?
ReplyDeleteKaytee should go through some of the safari. Chances of kaytee eaten alive by lions are high
I wanna be there when that happens