PORT DICKSON, Feb 10 — The army is ready to maintain harmony and public order during the 14th general election, said Chief of Army Gen Tan Sri Zulkiple Kassim.
“The strength of our personnel and assets is sufficient to face any eventuality although we have had no special training to handle general elections,” he said at a press conference after a parade at the conclusion of recruit training here today.
Wrong and right, General, but let me tell you what is wrong first.
It's NOT the job of the military to maintain harmony and public order during the 14th general election. That's the police's job. In the darkest hour of a civil unrest and ONLY when the police faces inadequate resources to control the situation, will the police call in the military to ASSIST.
I hope you get that, namely (the critical points):
(1) Police is in charge,
(2) Police may call in the military,
(3) Military ONLY assist police,
(3) Military ONLY assist police,
(4) Military moves ONLY when Police says so,
(5) Police remains in charge including deployment and control of the military.
General, I am sure you know all about 'Command & Control', so remember, the police is ALWAYS in control, full stop.
Now, let me tell you where you have been right. Yes, the military does NOT have special training to handle general elections. Reiterating, that's the job of the police, and always a police job.
When the police calls in the Military to ASSIST, it's most likely the army, navy and air force will NOT be given duties in direct contact with the civilian population. The military will be assign duties to protect water reservoirs and such likes, electrical sources, communication centres, airports, ports, etc.
When the police calls in the Military to ASSIST, it's most likely the army, navy and air force will NOT be given duties in direct contact with the civilian population. The military will be assign duties to protect water reservoirs and such likes, electrical sources, communication centres, airports, ports, etc.
On this constitutional issue, let me recommend you useful reading, starting with a letter I (wakakaka) wrote to Malaysia, to wit, Keep soldiers in their constitutional barracks - letter to Malaysiakini.
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Maintaining the 'calm' in Thai elections has been how General Prayut became PM of Thailand Malaysia is a democracy and not a military dictatorship |
U, as a civilian, r trying to educate an military general about his duty to the nation!
ReplyDeleteBravo, tapek spring!
On 2nd thought, if a high ranking military officer CAN say what's been printed, then, rest assure u have a big big problem in the coming ge14.
Military intelligence monitors the state of nation ALL the time & makes possible future projections about that state.
Either that military officer is a moron or he knows something we don't!
Like so many of the bolihlander high ranking officers, they just can't keep their mouth shut.
Partly to syiok-sendiri, partly to tell the world they know!
Wakakakaka...... Sad but be warn, indeed!!
The Malaysian Deep State is preparing for the possibility that if BNajib loses the majority in the Dewan Rakyat, extraordinary measures will be required to ensure BNajib remains in power.
ReplyDeleteIf that scenario comes to pass, there may well be gigantic public street protests, and the Army will be required to keep BNajib in power,
Shoot To Kill may become necessary.
Whatever it takes.
Many view the army as a neutral and impartial institution, thus, I would support the army presence in this GE14. However, it should be limited to security issues and not interfering in the electoral process.
ReplyDeleteSince electoral security is one of the important determinants of an electoral process, it is up to the EC to gauge the heat, and then decide whether military assistance is required, in order to make the voters feel confident/safe to go out and vote in this GE14.
The EC does NOT have the constitutional authority to seek help directly from the military. The police remains in charge and in control of internal Malaysian security. The military constitutionally cannot interfere in internal Malaysian affairs, unless the police asks for its assistance.
Deletep/s It's not unique in Malaysian only but in most Comm
DeleteCommonwealth nations, like UK, Australia, NZ, Canada etc
Way to many assumptions and imagination to what the general said. Just like the case when the MAF said they are ready to render any assistance to Palestine, internet commenters jump to the conclusion that we are going to war with Israel!
ReplyDeleteWhy not just take what the good general said at face value for the moment. That the MAF, while having their obligations to vote, will still be on standby in case necessary.
not assumption. The military CANNOT make such statements. It's outside its role, full stop. The unnecessary statement portends implicit threats. It threatens our Constitution.
DeleteAnd why not? Isnt it the ARMY's role to safeguard the nation's security from external & internal threats?
DeleteAnd remember, there may be infiltrated agents that intend to do us harm when we are busy with GE, the IS, Abu Sayyaf, Sulu Sultanate, Uighur elements intending for revenge, etc. We are not short of enemies from extremist forces.
job of police
DeleteI wouldn't like to see how our police with MP5s going up against Sulu Sultanate gunmen with AK47s & M16s.
DeleteIt will be a bloodbath... on our side.
defending nation from foreign intrusion is military's job
DeleteTackling the problems that are above police's capability IS the military's job
Deleteexternal threats - military
Deleteinternal threats - police - if police lacks resources it then calls upon the military for assistance. the military can only assist police and NOT take over
all above roles and division of responsibilities in the books
"if police lacks resources it then calls upon the military for assistance"
DeleteAnd thats most probably what the good general means. MAF is ready to deploy if things get out of control that police can't handle. Now you finally agreed with me.
john, as I have written above, if police lacks resources it then calls upon the military for assistance. Only then should the military respond to police request. The military can only assist police and NOT take over
DeleteNowhere mentioned in his statement that he is taking over. You're over analysing it.
DeleteA military general must NEVER ever mention such things just prior to a general election
DeleteSo it must be wrong for police to send a message that they will be ready and available to keep the peace during CNY, kah?
DeleteBecoz the MAF also issues such messages during Hari Raya. I am still waiting for that coup since every Hari Raya but year after year I get disappointed.
Deletehari raya is NOT pre general elections
Deletepolice OK, but not military - different roles as defined officially
DeleteHari Raya is an event when majority of their forces will be occupied, just like GE as well. The main point is, during both occasions the MAF will still be sufficiently on standby to safeguard the country. Understand?
DeleteI don't see anything wrong with his statement at all.
The general did NOT talk about defending the country He was reported saying: "The army is ready to maintain harmony and public order during the 14th general election."
DeleteNote "... during the 14th general election". That is NOT allowed for the military to say anything about the army is ready to maintain harmony and public order during the 14th general election.
Why is it NOT allowed? The military is not allowed to maintain peace at all times, even during when they need to vote as well?
DeleteSo maybe some country can invade us during GE14 when our MAF has stand to down becoz its not allowed, huh?
Despite ur bias against the armed forces, MAF has never wavered in their need for constant 24/7/365(+1 leap day) vigilance towards external and internal foes.
DeleteFor that I support them 100%.
if a foreign country were to invade us, that's the military's job to stop them at the border. But the military cannot interfere nor pass remarks regarding an election, full stop
Deleteso do I within their constitutional roles. Many of my family members served) in the military and police for the last 70 years
DeleteWait, but you just told them to stand down during during GE14. So how are they gonna defend the country from invaders during that period?
Deletemilitary has its duties, the principal one being to defend the nation. They don't wait for the enemy to make a surprise attack during an election. That's why the military have military intelligence. If any enemy were to approach the border, the military will be waiting for them. If the enemy attacks by air, the air defence will be waiting as well. Likewise with the navy.All these have nothing to do with a general election. Thus the military keeps out of elections and other civilian affairs.
DeleteYes they do have intelligence. And that's why the good general said what he said, so that people (and foes) knows that MAF is still on guard and ever vigilant even during GE14 when most of them carry out their voting obligations. He never mentioned they will meddle in civilian affairs but "The strength of our personnel and assets is sufficient to face any eventuality".
DeleteSo again, nothing wrong with his statement.
Not his job. That's the police responsibility and jurisdiction
DeleteNope. Just like in the communist days, there are no black and white clear demarcation between police and MAF roles. Both worked with each other to uphold peace in any eventuality.
DeleteAs a person with allegedly many family members who served in police and military, I am shocked that you are unaware of this duality. But then, they probably can't tell you the details which led to ur current assumptions and biases.
in communist days the constitutional role remained the same, to wit, the military helping the police. Due to lack of police para-military resources the police drew on a large element of the military especially when the CT threat grew bigger and bigger. But note, subsequently when the police had their para-military PFF, when the CT ran into Chinese villages to hide among the locals, the military had to stop some 'X' distance from the villagers and were NOT allowed to enter those villages. The Police PFF were then sent in. The reason was the military was NOT trained to handle civilians whilst the PFF, basically a mata-mata organisation was.
DeleteI have written on the above in a letter to Malaysiakini back in August 2015 - please read that https://ktemoc.blogspot.com.au/2015/08/keep-soldiers-in-their-constitutional.html
KTkia is wasting time in trying to explain the CLEAR demarcation role of the police & military in maintain order of the country in peace time.
DeleteIf a petrified mind is set, then no amount of insights would change its state. That's how zombie propagates.
Wakakakaka.... 'how are they gonna defend the country from invaders during ge14?'
See the moronicity of this gimmick in sceming to win a losing argument?
If the military intelligence has proof that foreign invasion is planned for the period of ge14, then the generals should have informed the government of the day to postpone the ge14.
Meanwhile they should strengthening the internal/external defences of the nation. The military is to search & terminate the invaders.
Unless the local citizen is been treated as the foreign invaders. Just like in many military coups of the banana states where the military actions r been framed in the name of protecting the public!
KT has correctly pointed out this clear demarcation:
Delete"when the CT ran into Chinese villages to hide among the locals, the military had to stop some 'X' distance from the villagers and were NOT allowed to enter those villages. The Police PFF were then sent in."
Those were the days when the military personnel r been properly trained & selected under the pommie master.
No more the case when the pommie left & the ketuanan freaks took over!
This was cleanly showcased during the May13 riots of 1969.
When the military was called in to help the police to stabilize the near amok situations in the initial stage, the military units from Sabah/Sarawak shown great impartiality in controlling the mobs.
This had resulted in many Melayu casualty as recorded from many of the hospitals around KL.
Then, the order (guess who??) came in to replace the East M'sian military units with the peninsula Melayu regiments.
Suddenly, the profile of the casualty changed. The Nons, especially the cinabengs, became the majority of the death statistic !
KT should be able to confirm this FACT from yr military serving relatives.
Ever since THEN, the quality of the M'sian military has been at rock bottom.
Keywords: "police had their para-military PFF". HAD.
DeleteThe commies were much less well-armed than the average Sulu fighters that came. And yet our police had paramilitaries and armoured cars back then, which is no longer the case.
Our police can no longer deal with insurgent threats and that's why the MAF now assist police in such situations under the ambit of National Security Council (akin to US Homeland Security). The armed forces back then weren't trained for urban combat like the police was. But now with non-state actors armed like some countries, its no longer viable for MAF to ignore FIBUA situations. And the military MUST be able to step up and handle those situations whenever/ wherever/ whatever, which warrants their general to assure the public, that they're up to this task.
@CK. I will ignore what you wrote becoz you can't carry an argument well.
Sulu fighters are EXTERNAL threats - military's responsibility
DeleteThey were IN Lahad Datu. It no longer becomes external when its on our soil.
DeleteFact is, conflicts no longer have clear cut black and white separation of sides, areas, interests, objectives, or outcome. The enemy no longer wears uniforms, he no longer stays in nice bunkers to be bombed, he doesn't spout threatening statements while waving his gun, he doesn't keep a beard, he may look like you and me but will not hesitate to shoot you anytime.
Everything is fluid, situations & changes happens so fast, a rigid clearly demarcated police/army force will be caught out and massacred as happened in Marawi.
I believe the good general took that into account when sending his message that you misconstrued.
They advanced to Lahad Datu which showed failure of BOTH military intelligence and police (SB) intelligence.
DeleteThey are armed foreigners which still remained the responsibility of teh military. When tehy merged with teh locals, then the police shoudl deal with it.
Basic principle, anything that involves Malaysian civilians, the police is in charge. Anything that involves armed foreign invasion or intrusion, the military deals with it.
There will of course be variations and deviations from the general scenario. The police and military have committees dealing with overlapping jurisdictions.
Agreed there was failure in BOTH intelligence. Doesn't take away the fact that conflict situations will have overlapping jurisdictions, which you succinctly put it.
DeleteAnd therefore I stand corrected that the MAF, too has a role to upheld peace at all times, even during GE.
"overlapping" is not in the sense you have imagined. It is geographical, in that the foreign invader having advanced from the border may disguised themselves as villagers. That's where the military and police coordinate and assign jurisdiction. All these have nothing to do with a military general having the unconstitutional brazenness and constitutional ignorance to talk about the army being ready to ensure peace in general elections, which lies in police jurisdiction.
DeleteThere's nothing in the Constitution to prevent MAF from carrying out their duties as necessary and neither does it bar the general from assuring the rakyat that they can vote in peace becoz MAF is ever vigilant.
DeleteThe most worrying election result scenario is a situation where BN wins less than 111 seats in the Dewan Rakyat, but the Yang DiPertuan Aging refuses to recognise that the Pakatan leader enjoys "the confidence of a majority the members of the House" as stated in the Constitution.
ReplyDeleteThere is a misunderstanding among many that the Government must be formed of a Formally registered party; in fact the Constitution has no such provision.
In recent years, both Germany and Britain, the world's fourth and fifth largest economies have been governed by informal coalitions.
If that scenario happens and Najib Tun Gasak is instead invited to form the next Federal government, Yes , Najib Tun Gasak would have to order tanks and masses of soldiers armed with fully loaded M-16s out on the streets of all Malaysian cities to stay in power.
If I recalled correctly, what u'd mentioned was the interpretation of forming an elected govt by that infamous mom.
DeleteRest assure, this is in serious consideration by Jibby if such scenario arises.
Perhaps, that's why the military is giving 'inmatured' warning beyond it's call of duty!
This was what the general said, to wit:
DeleteThe army is ready to maintain harmony and public order during the 14th general election, although we have had no special training to handle general elections
The military is NOT allowed to say that, whilst the police can