PKR’s Johari Abdul has failed to convince Chief Minister Lim Guan Eng that five PKR assemblypersons who abstained from voting against an Umno motion on reclamation did so based on their conscience.
“When he (Johari) said that the PKR 5 voted according to their conscience, does it mean that the four other PKR assemblymen who voted against the Umno motion, did not have any conscience?” Lim asked at a press conference today.
KT comment: I'll have more to say about this "conscience voting" soon, wakakaka.
The four PKR leaders who supported the state government in rejecting the Umno motion were Deputy Chief Minister I Rashid Hasnon (Pantai Jerejak), state executive councillors Abdul Malik Kassim (Batu Maung) and Dr Afif Bahardin (Seberang Jaya), and deputy speaker Maktar Shapee.
“When he (Johari) said that the PKR 5 voted according to their conscience, does it mean that the four other PKR assemblymen who voted against the Umno motion, did not have any conscience?” Lim asked at a press conference today.
KT comment: I'll have more to say about this "conscience voting" soon, wakakaka.
The four PKR leaders who supported the state government in rejecting the Umno motion were Deputy Chief Minister I Rashid Hasnon (Pantai Jerejak), state executive councillors Abdul Malik Kassim (Batu Maung) and Dr Afif Bahardin (Seberang Jaya), and deputy speaker Maktar Shapee.
KT comment: Reminder, 4 Chinese PKR Aduns abstained from voting against the UMNO proposal which is the same as voting with UMNO or alternatively, voting AGAINST the 4 Malay PKR Aduns who voted together with the DAP-led Pakatan state government, one of whom is Rashid Hasnon, the DCM I of Penang.
“Do they not have any conscience when they do not want to see the state go bankrupt?” Lim queried, when asked to response to Johari’s statement at a press conference held in Kuala Lumpur yesterday. [...]
Lim reiterated that cancellation of projects can bring big consequences to Penang, saying that the compensation amount would run into RM1 billion or more.
“As a government, we have to behave responsibly, which is why the four PKR assemblymen voted against the Umno motion.
“They cannot risk Penang going bankrupt,” Lim said.
Lim said Johari may have been aware of the facts of the incident before announcing his support for the PKR rebels.
Johari may not know that the PKR reps did not inform Rashid, whom DAP recognises as the party leader in Penang, before they abstained from voting, Lim added.
“This is unacceptable,” he said. Lim has earlier accused Ong, who led the other four in abstention, of attempting to topple Rashid, which Ong had denied.
Lim reiterated that cancellation of projects can bring big consequences to Penang, saying that the compensation amount would run into RM1 billion or more.
“As a government, we have to behave responsibly, which is why the four PKR assemblymen voted against the Umno motion.
“They cannot risk Penang going bankrupt,” Lim said.
Lim said Johari may have been aware of the facts of the incident before announcing his support for the PKR rebels.
Johari may not know that the PKR reps did not inform Rashid, whom DAP recognises as the party leader in Penang, before they abstained from voting, Lim added.
“This is unacceptable,” he said. Lim has earlier accused Ong, who led the other four in abstention, of attempting to topple Rashid, which Ong had denied.
This is Part II to my earlier post Chinese PKR against DAP four days ago.
Lim GE obviously isn't going to allow the 5 PKR Aduns of Penang (4 of them Chinese versus 4 Malay PKR Aduns, where the latter voted with the DAP-led state government) get away with their virtually anti-Pakatan voting with the pathetic weak attempt by PKR HQ to broad brush away their political rebellion.
From Lim's comments, it's apparently clear that the PKR leadership in Penang (DCM I Rashid Hasnon) was not even aware of the 4 Chinese PKR Aduns' intention to abstain. Thus it could be said that poor unsuspecting Rashid Hasnon had been embarrassingly ambushed-sabotaged by his own party people.
From Lim's comments, it's apparently clear that the PKR leadership in Penang (DCM I Rashid Hasnon) was not even aware of the 4 Chinese PKR Aduns' intention to abstain. Thus it could be said that poor unsuspecting Rashid Hasnon had been embarrassingly ambushed-sabotaged by his own party people.
Some people who've criticized Lim GE as being dictatorial obviously don't understand Westminster parliamentary procedures or rather process, where "conscience vote" by party parliamentarians (or Aduns) is only allowed when the highest party leadership publicly permits it, but as we know, such permission was NOT given by PKR prior to the voting.
Malaysiakini also reported: On the merits of the motion itself, Lim said demanding that DEIA or public consultation to be carried out is “redundant” as these are already provided for under federal laws.
Lim also refuted Farid’s call for new reclamation projects to be halted, saying it included those approved by the previous government, prior to 2008.
He challenged Farid to request that the federal government provide an indemnity in the event compensation needs to be paid out of the Penang government coffers.
“If you just want to study projects which are yet to be approved, then we don't need such a motion, as existing laws already compel the state government to do so before any approval is given,” Lim said.
“We need to look at the financial consequences of this motion, if you don't follow the contract, you need to pay,” he added.
Lim also refuted Farid’s call for new reclamation projects to be halted, saying it included those approved by the previous government, prior to 2008.
He challenged Farid to request that the federal government provide an indemnity in the event compensation needs to be paid out of the Penang government coffers.
“If you just want to study projects which are yet to be approved, then we don't need such a motion, as existing laws already compel the state government to do so before any approval is given,” Lim said.
“We need to look at the financial consequences of this motion, if you don't follow the contract, you need to pay,” he added.
That's responsible governance and public accountability, which PKR should bloody learn, and not only in parliamentary process but also in forming alliance with a political party which is strongly and defiantly against Pakatan Harapan as well as in photo-ops with unfriendly aliens, wakakaka.
1. diff conscience, not no conscience. sneaky twist.
ReplyDelete2. agree or disagree with the cause, nothing to do with umno or whatever. fuck off u bush fanboy.
3. there r many type of democracy, if u wan to follow the exact westmister way, go join rpk. moreover pkr already make their stance clear, if that cant convince u n lge, too bad.
4. i dun go into detail on what lead lge to say the deia is redundant, perhaps kt can share more of the technical aspect. however i strongly disagree good governance is abt follow the contract. lge is a fucking retard, talk like one n act like one. look at all the fucking toll contract, just follow n pay? if lge is really that good, he must not afraid to challenge all the cbmf in court. what a loser, i think penang people must courage enough to kick out lge n dap. remind all power corrupt. lge already show the symptoms.
fact not fantasy is that the Malaysian parliamentary system, both at state and federal levels, have been based on the Westminster system. It's the job of the party whip to ensure that all party parliamentary members vote in accordance with party line UNLESS the party leadership announces that "conscience voting" is permitted. PKR leadership permission on "conscience voting" on UMNO motion was NOT given..
ReplyDeleteThus there is no and cannot be anymore denying that the 5 PKR Aduns who abstained from voting on the UMNO motion had rebelled against their own party Penang leadership, to wit, DCM I Rashid Hasnon. Perhaps the act of defiant mutiny against Penang Pakatan stand on said motion was targeted at Lim GE.
It's known that the PKR Chinese section has been notoriously set against DAP. This doesn't spell a good future for DAP-PKR political cooperation and virtually the impending doom of Pakatan Harapan, probably starting off in Sarawak. The Sarawak DAP (independent and autonomous of DAP central leadership policies, unlike PKR wakakaka) is known to be severe and less compromising in its attitude towards PKR.
ok. since u repeat again n again the same thing.
Deletepls provide citation where in a westminster system, it's the job of the party whip to ensure that all party parliamentary members vote in accordance with party line.
I only see state assemblymen in penang govt n those that r not, i have no idea what pkr malay n pkr chinese r u talking abt, we r not dap la.
it's not my job to make you believe in what I say = in this common knowledge, you can take it or leave it. I'm tired of your silly harassing
DeleteThe FACT in Penang assembly is that the split between 4 Malay Aduns vs 4 Chinese Aduns from the same party over an UMNO motion is by the party called PKR, not DAP - ignore this if you wish bu you are then like an ostrich
And that's why your party is the most fuckup in Pkatan, still consorting with PAS when PAS has already voiced its opposition to DAP (and vice versa) and its preference for UMNO policies
yg sokong guan eng state excos & yg abstained wakil rakyat yg takdak kuasa, mana ada melayu lawan cina, cuma kebetulan saja....bottom line nak hidup.
DeleteI was educated to back up my argument with fact or evidence, perhaps u were taught differently, but this r absolutely no consequence to me.
Deletemy reading of westminster system on collective responsibility is applicable to those in the cabinet, all pkr adun in the state govt didn't support umno motion, while the adun not in the state govt abstain from voting, pray tell how pkr don't follow the westminster way?
there r many approach to make dap emerge as winner in this episode, instead lge waste his time to attack pkr, n u try to defend lge with yr half baked opinion (not fact).
you are either so lazy or mean spirited as to ask me for evidence when it's availble on teh Net - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whip_(politics) but then you're a PKR ostrich
Deleteneither lazy nor inconsiderate, just dun understand what is whip n it background, google westminster instead. but that's a good education from u anyway.
Deletehowever if u read the link whip on msia, u would realise there is much controversy, moreover in the penang state govt, it is not clear how the whip system work, who assume this whip role, dap or pkr, or each respectively, is coalition similar to party that command majority, did whip apply to mp or adun not in the cabinet n state govt, so many question so little answer, no matter how u name calling me, yr view is not share by many, merely a syok sendiri exercise.
PKR is the one syiok sendiri. It's notorious as a party that's only interested in gaining ultimate powers (to put Anwar or Azmin in the PM's seat) but without giving due considerations to sincere alliance, bespeaking its UMNO genes.
DeleteThis is not to say there aren't some sincere PKR members but they're not in the most upper echelon. I would encourage them to leave PKR to join DAP, as has Dr Bari who obviously knows which party is a true democratic and righteous political party. I believe this will soon happen and may that day arrive sooner.
Correct me if I am wrong but one of the PKR adun who abstained is the whip for PKR in the state assembly.
DeleteYes, he is Ong Chin Wen. TMI (22/11/2015) reported the following, which showed the PKR party whip himself militating against Pakatan consensus BUT without apparently informing his state party leader, DCM 1 Rashid Hasnon:
DeleteLim said the actions of the "PKR 5" were not that of lone assemblymen, but something pre-planned and organised.
“PKR whip Ong Chin Wen, the ADUN for Bukit Tengah, told the press that the 'PKR 5' abstained in accordance to their conscience and that it ‘reflected the current political situation’,” Lim said.
“Does this mean that their own four PKR ADUNs holding government posts, who voted against Umno’s motion have no conscience?”
“What type of current political situation is he talking about when the Umno ADUNs had earlier opposed PKR’s motion to ask that imprisoned PKR leader, Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim, be given medical treatment of his choice as well as refused to answer to questions relating to the RM2.6 billion donation scandal?”
Lim said it was also disturbing that Ong’s actions were known to the PKR national leadership since the latter admitted to informing them.
“The Penang government does not intend to meddle into the internal party problems of a party ally and will give PKR time to resolve them before the state government decides how to deal with their reference to trust Umno more than their own state government.”
it shows an internal split in PKR with UMNO benefitting on political moral grounds, wakakaka
Deletewat split r u talking abt, the pkr whip lift the whip to allow conscience voting, sure we would have diff result, only under dictatorship we always have one way result, that what happen in umno n dap. but umno still slightly better, sharir used to vote against umno n still stand tall, cant tell the same abt that dap environment adun. apa boleh buat, he join the wrong party, under one dictator, pity.
Deletedon't bs, ONg Chin Wrn did NOT. His abstention caught his own state leader Rashid Hasnon by surprise. The process is for the party leader to make the decision and the party whip to enforce it. The party whip is obliged to follow and enforce his leader's instructions - that's why he/she is the party whip.
DeleteInstead in PKR (wakakaka) the party whip rebelled and without telling his leader about his intention.
With this disgraceful PKR f*up, the voters can see that party policies (as promised to voters and supporters, or even unpromised but issued) may NOT be upheld because there is NO discipline in the party. PKR might as well be a party (if you can call it that) of independents, wakakaka
After the controversial State Assembly vote forced the Land Reclamation issue into a major public issue, the Penang State Exco Chow Kon Yeow finally admitted to previously secret plans to reclaim thousands of acres of sea bed off the southern tip of the island.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/southern-part-of-penang-island-to-be-reclaimed-to-fund-transport-master-pla
I will not be surprised if further down the road , Lim Guan Eng and allies are going to claim it is now impossible to cancel or scale down the project in the face of public objections, because the State Government will then have to pay millions in compensation to the Private companies involved in the deal.
A fait accompli to the public.
The Lim Guan Eng DAP state administration is starting to sound Very UMNO-ish
I think Lim Guan Eng is doing himself , his administration and Penang a great disservice by trying to browbeat the PKR assemblymen for "Treachery" and focussing purely on the so-called disloyalty of the 5.
The big elephant in the room, as far as the electorate is concerned, is the secrecy and lack of public consultation surrounding the proposed land reclamation.
Basically BN-UMNO style No Transparency and No Public consultation from the Lim Guan Eng DAP administration.
Please note that in Westminster Parliamentary terms, it is Bullshit to say abstaining from voting against an Opposition proposal is the same as voting with the proposal.
Simple arithmetic + Simple Parliamentary rules.
If a Government has a 7-vote majority in the House, and 5 Government MPs abstain from an Opposition motion, the motion is still defeated by 2 votes. The government remains in power.
If the same 5 Government MPs truly rebel, and cross the aisle to vote For the other side, the Opposition motion gets carried by a 3-vote majority, and the Government losses the vote.
If this is a Supply Bill or other major legislation, it is grounds for resignation of the Government, and dissolution of the Assembly and snap elections.
See the difference ?
BTW I am no PKR supporter. I have been a card-carrying DAP member for 30 years.
We must know how to recognise what is right, and what is wrong.
you've avoided the issue of conscience voting which is NOT allowed on any motion OTHER than those permitted by the party leadership. There was no such PKR permission
DeleteThis is and has been the bedrock of Westminster parliamentary process whereby Party A debated/debates a motion against Party B. There is no room for independent voting SAVE on issues the party leadership deems as meriting conscience voting
Please don't avoid the fundamentals by coming up with maths
I think Lim Guan Eng is still smarting from the vote because he may have won the Assembly vote by brute force of the existing majority, including the PKR reps who voted with the government.
ReplyDeleteMorally, and ethically, DAP lost the this particular debate on land reclamation, and Lim Guan Eng knows it. That is why he will not stop beating up the PKR 5.
Being exposed after Stealthily proceeding with massive land reclamation plans is a big boo-boo.
I believe the point to be made, and brought out by your comment, is that PKR (or some recalcitrant section of it, to wit, the Chinese element, wakakaka) is NOT playing its part as a cohesive PAKATAN coalition, by not voting against the UMNO proposal.,
DeleteThose 5 PKR Aduns, 4 of whom are in the Chinese group, did NOT voice their unhappiness with the government's stand PRIOR to the voting but by stealth caught even the PKR state leader Rashid Hasnon by surprise by their non-coalition action. This was sabotage of Pakatan policy and thus unity.
Thus, with this PRINCIPAL point in mind, can anyone blame Pakatan leadership, to wit, Lim GE, for being mad?
We cannot simply ignore the above by just accuse Lim GE of just being a frustrated dictator or that he has sinister plans to reclaim more and more sea areas. Reclaiming land from the sea by itself is NOT a bad idea and in most of the cases, a vital step for Penang's future.
While the current reclamation poses an environmental argument, it is separate from the issue of the state Pakatan policy cohesiveness and the FACT of those 5 PKR Aduns NOT raising their concerns PRiOR to the voting (why NOT if their conscience troubled them?) but instead abstaining from the process without even their own party state leader being aware of their non-Pakatan intention.
We thus need to question what has been their real MOTIVE?
motive? cari makan.
DeletePKR's leaders operate and are huge operators of large fleets of 'teksi sapu'.If that is not enough they also spread their legs wide open.
ReplyDeleteDAP has leaders full of ego sick animal mentality.
PAS have leaders obsessed with 'hudud'.
Harapan leaders do not care whether it is 'hudud' or no 'hudud'.
No matter what,Najib and Umno with their lap dogs are going to walk over them in GE14.
After GE14,the opposition will self destruct and will be relegated into mosquito parties,DAP included.Good riddance to bad garbage.
3:19am still don't want to sleep.
ReplyDelete"Give the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties". ~ John Milton, Areopagitica
ReplyDeleteWhat did the BN/UMNO motion actually say ?
ReplyDeleteIt called for public hearings (pendengaran awam) before any reclamation projects are finalised, and also called for a postponement of all new reclamation projects until detailed oceanic, environmental and social impact studies are done, and to cancel all such developments if they have a negative impact.
Bear in mind it touched on New projects - not on existing and already approved ones.
Personally, I could not find anything wrong with the BN/UMNO motion.
I am not a Penang voter, but if I were, I would be pressuring my Representative to vote for the motion, and at least pressuring their leadership to allow a Vote of Conscience, like what UK Labour MPs are currently pressuring Jeremy Corbyn to allow for the vote over British military action in Syria.
By the way a Vote of Conscience means allowing MPs to vote per according to their personal conscience or their constituency interests, instead of strictly adhering to the Party Whip.
It DOES NOT imply those who vote the other way have no conscience.
That is Half-Past Six English.
Unfortunately this whole land reclamation issue has been caught up in the toxic "You are either with us or You are Against Us" mentality of the current political situation.
Environmental laws in Malaysia lack teeth and do not inspire confidence.
NO project has ever been stopped because of negative environmental consequences or Unfavourable Environmental Impact Assessments.
Projects don't proceed because they are not economically viable or the ROIC is not sufficiently attractive. A few projects have been shelved because they have become politically too hot , but that lies in the POLITICAL field, not environmental regulations per se.
To me protecting the environment is far more important in the long run than party discipline. Land reclamation is not bad in itself. Reckless projects bulldozed through without public consultation definitely are .
Penangites will have to live with the consequences of reckless projects long after Lim Guan Eng is dust.
The largest land reclamation project in Penang to date - Sri Tanjung Pinang - approved during the BN -Koh Tsu Koon era - has turned the Western half of Gurney Drive into a Dead Sea. Stinking, polluted mud, heavily degraded sea shore. The land reclamation zone has turned Gurney Drive into a shadow area which sea currents no longer flush away mud and pollutants.
Who benefitted ? E&O Properties earned several Billion Ringgit worth of revenue through the project. The 0.05 % of the population who can afford RM 2-3 Million homes.
Who carries the cost ? The rest of Penangites.
you've preemptively accused LGE of reckless projects. You have at the same time thrown in the reckless projects of the BN state govt headed by Koh in the same breath yet praises the same BN people who did not object to those BN projects but who now do the Pakatan govt's projects as if the two state govts would behave the same way or have the same accountability, transparency and competency.
DeleteWhat gives?
berebut harta rampasan perang.
DeleteWhat gives ?
ReplyDeleteJust one who cares about the environment, and Fucks whoever deserves to get Fucked.
I do not support any particular tribe. Not DAP, Not BN, Not PKR.
The BN-approved projects were approved more than 10 years ago. Many of those who made the call are dead - physically dead or politically dead.
That they were wrong-headed decisions does not mean the current Reps cannot speak up for actions which may be wrongly carried out by the current Regime.
Right now , Lim Guan Eng and his Secret land reclamation plans are on the wrong side of what is right.
4,000 acres land reclamation plan without open public input - I call that reckless.
(a) Re your "The BN-approved projects were approved more than 10 years ago. Many of those who made the call are dead - physically dead or politically dead." but alas, their consequences aren't all that dead.
DeletePlease read the Malay Mail Online on 30 Nov which tells us:
GEORGE TOWN, Nov 30 — The Penang government blames the previous Barisan Nasional (BN) administration for the state’s controversial land reclamation projects, claiming the state would be driven to bankruptcy if it did not proceed with them.
Chief Minister Lim Guan Eng, who is the DAP national secretary-general, said out of the 1,311 ha approved by BN for the projects, 301ha had been reclaimed for the Penang Transport Masterplan.
“We can postpone the reclamation of the remaining 1,010ha but we would have to pay compensation amounting to RM1 billion. This would drive the state into bankruptcy,” he said at the 2015 Penang DAP Convention here.
“We were attacked and condemned for the plan that was approved by BN.”
Lim said the state government had paid RM35 million over the Tang Hak Ju land issue and to Boustead Holdings Bhd to reduce the height of its hotel in George Town, both projects approved by BN.
He said if Penang went bankrupt, it would affect the state’s aid for the elderly and needy as well as for university students.
State DAP chairman Chow Kon Yeow said the party must be on the alert against attempts by Barisan Nasional to wrest the state back.
“As the general election draws nearer, the state opposition is attempting to make a comeback by highlighting issues such as foreign investment, housing, illegal hill clearing, sea reclamation and environmental issues,” he said.
(b) also read this MM Online article to know who had been responsible for the reclamation projects. Hint - the contract was signed in 1990.
GEORGE TOWN, May 23 — The concession agreement for the controversial Sri Tanjung Pinang II (STP2) land reclamation project was signed in 1990, said Penang Chief Minister Lim Guan Eng (DAP — Air Putih).
In his winding-up speech at the state legislative assembly this morning, Lim said the current Pakatan Rakyat (PR) administration was bound by the deal signed by the Barisan Nasional (BN) government despite the mounting resistance.
“Whether we like it or not, we are subject to the law and the conditions from the agreement signed long ago,” he said.
He was responding to backbencher Yap Soo Huey (DAP — Pulau Tikus) who had raised doubts on the feasibility of the project, which she termed as “high risk” to the people of Penang.
“If we look at it from a financial angle, it is impossible to cancel such a massive project — it covers a total 760 acres (307.5 hectares) — do you know how much we will need to pay compensation for this?” Lim asked.
Yap then asked whether the existing deal had provisions to block the project if there were negative effects on the environment.
Lim said the matter was not clear-cut as the state would need proof from the Environment Department to show harm from the project.
“We can’t cancel the project without any concrete proof of any negative impact from it,” he said.
Those who are for cancelling the contract but not contributing to paying off for damages sued would be the ones being reckless - pandai cakap aiyah talk is so cheap lah.
kt, i dun think most here is suggesting the cancelling of contract. however if the project truly give a huge impact on environment, u would agree the state govt to just proceed? we r talking abt impact studies, n i dun think the contract is so sacred like our fed con wakaka n nothing is negotiable? lge sound like samy vellu, talk compensation all the time, he is threatening the people.
Deletehttp://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/opinion/2015/11/24/hl-is-guan-eng-another-mahathir-in-the-making/
ReplyDeleteIs Guan Eng another Mahathir in the making ?
It is perhaps quite a pertinent question, at a moment when UMNO is at its weakest, and a large portion of the electorate strongly supports changing the government next GE.
DAP is expected to play a dominant role in any non-UMNO government which results, and Lim Guan Eng a domineering role in it.
if the chinese in penang got conscience, then lge will lose his crown.
ReplyDeletethats what hapen in terengganu n kedah, hope it happen again in kelantan wakaka.
Delete