Last week I posted Muslim converts or Islamic convenience?, seemingly a perennial problem for Indian Malaysians.
There have been two unhappy versions, where …
… one would involve the unpleasant fighting over the body of the deceased because no one’s sure whether he (or she, but usually a ‘he’) had converted to Islam prior to his (or her) death, though each party in the unhappy affair would be 101% certain the dear departed one had been true to the religion shared by the same party, and …
… the other would involve a non-Muslim (again Indian) couple, where in a divorce (announced or otherwise) one becomes a Muslim and set about converting the kids to embrace Islam as well, usually without the permission or even knowledge of the non-Muslim spouse.
I believe the cabinet has come up with a morally correct decision, that the children of such marriage breakups cum split religious affiliation would be brought up in the religion of the parents prior to the marriage breakup.
I am glad that Karpal Singh has given support and praise where it’s due. In such a sensitive situation, especially one involving the Islamic religion, it’s not an easy call where it’s hardly surprising that not everyone would be happy.
But that’s what leadership is about and I applaud Najib’s brave and moral decision because his decision would set him back with the very conservative Muslim community.
As reported by The Malaysian Insider Anwar Ibrahim gave the Pakatan’s backing to a High Court decision which granted interim custody of three children to Indira Gandhi, the non-Muslim mum.
However, unlike Karpal Singh, he fell short of supporting the cabinet decision, in fact criticising them for failing to consult religious and social leaders as well as legal experts.
Quite frankly, kaytee believes that without the cabinet's publicly announced decision, the High Court would have acted 'dunno' again.
PAS Pak Haji Hadi Awang was less accommodating than Anwar Ibrahim. It had to take Anwar to cut him off before he tarred Pakatan Rakyat with green paint.
I also note the subtle but nonetheless different reports by The Malaysian Insider and Malaysiakini on Pak Haji Hadi Awang's opposition to the cabinet decision. We know the former is linked with KJ, but what with the latter which appears to euphemise PAS' objection into nothingness, as if Pak Haji didn't object strenuously?
In the meantime, MCA thought it would embarrass Lims Snr and Jnr but was confronted with a furious flaying by Uncle Lim who sneered at MCA vice-president Liow Tiong Lai as ‘a person with a suspect IQ’ for failing to read Lim’s numerous statements in his blog that supported the cabinet decision.
Kaytee wishes that all political parties, inclusive of PAS wakakaka, would not politicize the matter but rather consider the family’s status quo established/contracted in a marriage prior to the breakup as the basis for bringing up the children.
PAS should also consider the possibility that Islam might be exploited as a pretext for a spouse to gain the upper hand in such a marriage breakup. The sacred sanctity of Islam must always be upheld.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI actually commented on LKS' blog on this topic but my post was censored (so much for "Democratic" Action Party..)
ReplyDeleteWhat I mentioned was Malaysians don't need this disjointed policy making from a political coaltion that is vying to rule the country.
We see DAP folks applauding the decision yet PAS taking a Talibanese stance while the GSOS as usual try to be as vague as possible and trying to evade the issue.
Before the cabinet decision DAP lambasted MCA,Gerakan and MIC for being UMNO's lapdog in being unable to stop these forced conversions and body-snatching, even though these parties strongly opposed them. DAP labelled them as powerless and even called them to leave BN if they couldn't get UMNO to agree with them.
But now we find DAP in the very same boots and we find LKS the toothless tiger evading the issue of Pakatan's stance by hiding under Anwar's hijjab.
There is no point in DAP only agreeing to this policy when they have been clearly proven to be junior partner of the coalition even in the state they have clear majority like in Penang. We have seen how the GSOS able to walk all over and even kick in the posterior of the Cheap Minister in his steel-tipped industrial boots. As such, DAP's position is meaningless and useless.
What we need is a clear Pakatan's position on this issue.
Ever since 0308, LKS has suddenly developed an amnesia and a penchant for ignoring the very same issues that he used to fight.
That's why I have lost my respect for people from DAP after the GE for betraying their principles that they fought and stood for since their inception.
We Malaysians must demand an answer from Anwar and his crew. Evading the issue and vague statements is simply not acceptable.
I have edited Chaptokam's comment of 11:51 PM, May 04, 2009 (see delete)
ReplyDelete*********************************
chaptokam said...
furious flaying by Uncle Lim who sneered at MCA vice-president Liow Tiong Lai as ‘a person with a suspect IQ’ for failing to read Lim’s numerous statements in his blog that supported the cabinet decision.
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WHEN HE HANTAM MCA , HE'LL CALL ALL THE MSM AND TV1, TV2 TV3, NTV7 , TV8 , TV9 .
BUT WHEN HE SUPPORT CABINET DECISION YOU HAVE TO READ IT FROM HIS BLOG !!!!! WAH LAU LE , HOW MANY MINISTERS GOT TIME TO READ BLOG ? ? ? WHAT GUTTER POLITICS IS THAT ??
Uncle Lim , you are no different from [DELETED] ( Brother Anwar Bin Ibrahim ) lah !
******************************
Chaptokam, while I am tolerant of even acrimonious comments, my tolerance doesn't extend to religiously taboo-ed words. Thank you.
DAP and Kit Siang clearly did!
ReplyDeleteAnd they were justified in classifying these MCA politicians as cretins.
You see, you need a brain to have an IQ. And Liow and these MCA hacks have no brains; ergo, no IQ!
QED!
http://donplaypuks.blogspot.com
Killer
ReplyDeleteAnwar has supported the Cabinet's decision. What more do you want from him?
For 50 years we did not hear from you complaining or questioning about all the excesses of UMNO/BN/MCA. But now you are asking Anwar/PKR/DAP to account for this, that and the other.
Practically all your comments are about asking Anwar to come clean or this or that or something disparaging about him. Would that you would apply the same standard to Mahathir, Najib and UMNO/BN/MCA!!
http://donplaypuks.blogspot.com
donplaypuks®
ReplyDeleteOh they did ? Ya now I remember from their blogs . Next time better read from MCA's blogs they also disagree to a lot of things UMNO did .
Btw where's your Kit Siang objection to Zulkifli Noordin's Cina Balek China Issue ? And how about the time when Anwar asked Cina balek Tiong San in 1998?
MCA hacks have no brains ? Yeah only puks like you have ! Its people like you that pisses people like me from joining the opposition because of the way they comment . To them ALL MCA people are hacks or no IQ ! Let me tell you one thing , We will still be around irrespective of who becomes the government as we are survivalist , not opportunists , but for you if BN were to make a strong comeback , I think you will jump from Petronas Twin Towers and bye bye !!
donplaypuks®
ReplyDeleteFor 50 years we did not hear from you complaining or questioning about all the excesses of UMNO/BN/MCA.
Don't give me the crap of 50 years ! Any intelligent guy will tell you its not 50 years ! Only the cultist will keep on singing like a broken old record track that keeps on and on singing the same old tune !
Just two things which my intelligence tells me you are dead wrong !!!
a)In 2004 when TDM step down as PM and Pak Lah took over ! How did BN perform ? Just to refresh you they nearly got wipe out . Name any of those who survive 2004 ? only PAS still manage to win Kelantan ! For your info Penang only had ONE DAP guy left standing . LKS ? Karpal ? all cleaned up !
So it seems that Malaysians with all the excesses of UMNO/BN/MCA for 50 years still voted for UMNO/BN/MCA ? overwhelmingly ? So what kind of reasoning is that ? An accountants reasoning I guess where 1 plus 1 equals three !
And concerning the repetitive slogan of yours didn't the rakyat already punished them for all the arrogance and excesses ? in 2008 ? so the same tune is being played and played , just like in the court you talk so much about KUgan like you are the prosecutor , judge and what else ? That you do not PUNISH a guy for the same charge over and over again ! But here BN has been punished in 2008 and you are still singing the same old tune !
Let me just say when happen in 2008 ! The timing was just perfect for a PERFECT STORM or Tsunami as how you want to put it .
Pak Lah failed to deliver after the tremendous support given to him to clean house left over by TDM . Plus the arrogance of UMNO in the Keris issue which was widely played up , the excesses of the govt within the last five years , plus the MCA internal conflict and the great dislike of OKT and his henchmen which saw MCA members voting against MCA candidates , plus Gerakan supporters factional fighting against each other for their choice leader to take over as Penang CM plus MIC's problem thru Hindraf .
And 50 years , you are also way out ! If you are saying BN having excesses since 1959 (2009-50yrs) You are also dead wrong . Yeah as I said Accountants calculation 1+1=3 ! In 1959 Tunku was still the PM until 1969 when May13 happened . So Tunku is in your calculation having excesses ! As you say . Only inteeligent people like you can think !!!! Other people are sooo stuupid that they borders on gullible and low brow....
Will Tsu Koon, Tee Keat or any other BN Minister dare to raise in Cabinet tomorrow the swirling serious allegations about Najib’s involvement in the Altantunya C4 murder case, in particular RPK’s latest blog?
ReplyDeleteBy Lim Kit Siang
I think this apek has nothing much left to say except the screwed brain damaged repetitive subject of this woman . Guess they are so impressed with her that the daily lives of Malaysians and the country's economy plays second fiddle to this woman .
When will this apek for once talk something sensible and plausible for the daily bread and butter of all Malaysians ? Is this Mongolian woman far more important that even until today THEY ( RPK AND THE PR GOONS ) despite their constant harping to derail the government of Najib has not been able to produce a single piece of evidence accept heresay and the constant spin of this idiot !
Or is it that they are getting worried that the PM has been walking his talk while they are talking cock ! Fear seems to grip these doom and gloom sayers every minute these days that panic seems to be the order of the day !
We have been consistently reminded of the ghost of the Mongolian which seems to be haunting those whose have been playing it up from Che Gu Bards constant reminder of the Coffin carrying PKR grave diggers !
Dear Apek , my thought goes to you , don't ever push your luck TOO far , what comes round goes round . For the actions that you have created is not received by the intended receiver , it is coming back in the form of an echo which will be returned to sender , by the laws of cause and effect , action and reaction or simply laws of karma .
All things is this world are are put in place by a reason and for a reason and you are not GOD to say he is guilty . If he is guilty he will have to answer to his karma sooner or later and not for you to judge and pass sentence !
Malaysians will not be better off or living in better times whoever she is ! dead or alive .
Direct you energy into something more useful for the good of mankind or for this country , not the constant harping of some dead woman .
I am glad that today British politicians have not been idiotic to follow Malaysian politicians . They could have simply consistently played up the issue of Princess Diana's death as not an accident but rather something more sinister ! As alleged by Al Fayad that Diana was pregnant with Dodi's child and that they were due to be engaged , and that the accident which lead to their deaths was no mere accident as the British Royalty could never accept a Muslim Man to be the half dad to the future king of England .
It just does to show the quality of opposition leaders in Malaysia .
Chaptemociller
ReplyDeleteAre you now also the mouthpiece for Killer? And who else? Please tell us so we can address all of you in 1 go. It can be quite tiring to answer all your clients individually. Or are you Mattheus Chang in disguise?
Speak for yourself please, and don't drag in Ktemoc, Killer etc.
Tunku did not have excesses? What happened when Abdul Rahman challenged Seenivasagam to publicly accuse him of corruption, Seeni did so, AR was found gulity by the Courts and offered an overseas Ambassadorship by Tunku?
As for TAR, who started 100% MARA collge and strated more polarisation? Few are 100% white or 100% black!
http://donplaypuks.blogspot.com
Yo Chaptokam
ReplyDeleteThanks for replying on my behalf. I have a few more points to add to this gent donplaypuks.
Dear donplaypuks.
You may recall that all of 10 BN's non Muslim Cabinet ministers submitting a memo to the PM in an unprecedented action in the wake of the episodes of religious conversions and body-snatchings. This was a reflection of their unhappiness. Though the memo was withdrawn later, however, the point was made very clearly. Unfortunately Pak Lah never had the political guts to push through the necessary laws.
As for Anwar, he did not support the cabinet position but rather slammed them for making the decision without consulting the Taliban. Let me post the news from Suara Keadilan below.
==================================
Opposition Leader Anwar Ibrahim said the Pakatan Rakyat would support the High Court decision granting interim custody of three children to Indira Gandhi, an ethnic Indian woman who hit the headlines and stirred a religious debate after fighting her estranged husband over his new faith.
“On the issue of child custody, naturally it should be given to the mother, or as decided by the court,” Anwar said at a joint press conference with other Pakatan top brass including PAS president Hadi Awang and DAP adviser Lim Kit Siang.
However, the trio slammed the Prime Minister Najib Razak’s cabinet for making a key decision that children should follow the common religion of their parents at the time of marriage, without consulting the country’s religious leaders, civil society, academicians and other politicians
http://en.suarakeadilan.com/current-news/2009/05/6283
==================================
Does the above sounds like Anwar is supporting the Cabinet decision ? This is a classic case of Anwarisme....a statement is so vague that can be interpreted in any ways he wishes to depending on the audience.
Hidup Ketuanan Anwar !!
donplaypuks®
ReplyDeleteI speak for myself , even though your comment was addressed to Killer ! its the twisted spin of 50 years that I cannot tahan you guys harping on the issue . Do I need to speak on Ktemoc and Killer's behalf ? You must be out of your mind ! These two are towering giants by themselves and thanks for comparing me to them !
If those that you quoted were excesses by Tunku , then I have to say , I do not know how to reply you , same as Merdeka Uni which was rejected , but somehow or other , I am just wondering , did your LKS brought up these during these early times ?
Chaptemockiller
ReplyDeleteDon lah be so kiasu busybody! What, got nothing better to do than reply for others?
Get a life bro! Blogging is a hobby, not a profession!
donplaypuks®
ReplyDeleteWant to call a truce ? Me no kiasu busybody!
Blogging is a hobby, not a profession! Depends lah ! Malaysia Today , Susan Loone falls into which category ? hobby ? No Must be a mouth piece of somebody , how do you classify that ?
Get a good night sleep for today , lah ! bro , you feel much refresh tomorrow !
Donplapuks,
ReplyDeleteAiiya!!! stop wasting your time on this china bodoh chap and the india bodoh killer!Did you know they are famous for their half baked analysis and so called predictions?Nope they are'nt bloggers but hired writers to redicule using their mouth to masturbate like Jimmy Hendericks does with his guitar!Have you notice their masturbating pattern lately all bn centrixed?
Wonder how Ketmoc keeps up with this wierdos??
Ya lah Donplatypuss (or is it Donpelapuks?). Stop wasting time lah with the resident bodohs of KTemoc's comments section: chapto-mf and the killer-mf. There are better things in life to do than watch these cyber-masturbators enjoying themselves.
ReplyDeleteIslamic Fascists suggest that non-Malays be tattooed like Jews in Nazi Germany
ReplyDeletePosted by admin
Thursday, 31 January 2008 15:02
by FFT
Some disturbing content has recently been discovered in a video posting by two Malaysian Muslim bloggers, Mahaguru58 and MENJ.
These two individuals are also behind the outfit known as the Muslim Bloggers Alliance (readers should recall this outfit as the one that threw a hissy fit at one of RPK's recent installments of the "No Holds Barred" column, threatening to consult PEMBELA on the issue).
Here is the video link in question:
http://mahaguru58.blogspot.com/2008/01/menj-mahaguru58-dialogue-part-2-final.html
Backup here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4474858428888866992
While discussing the recent controversy over the issue of corpse snatching by Islamic authorities, these two Islamofascists go into a little diatribe trivializing the agony and stress that family members face at the hands of the menacing Shariah authorities.
If that weren't bad enough, Mahaguru58 then ominously suggests the following at time 12:50 on the video, with regard to how non-Muslims can prevent themselves from being buried as Muslims.......and I quote:
"Those who feel very strongly about it, this is going to offend some people I don't give a damn, they should have it tattooed on their chest like what Adolf Hitler did, you know, this is a Jew right?, and they had tattoos. So those who are now so adamant on not wanting to be buried as a Muslim, or whatever, for whatever reason, they should have it tattooed on their chest."
These two Nazi wannabes then go on further, referring to non-Muslims as being recalcitrant about not wanting their loved ones buried as a Muslim, completely ignoring the suspicious circumstances in which corpses were snatched.
Chaptokam
ReplyDeleteYou don't have your own blog. So, you can't lay claim to being a blogger. You are only a commenter.
In the talking world we would refer to you as 'rent a mouth!'
donplaypuks®
ReplyDeleteI did not lay claim to being a blogger ! yes I an a commenter !
In the talking world we would refer to you as 'rent a mouth!'
or NO , not only to me , but to all those who commented here and in your blog .
Perhaps I should paste this comment of yours back into your blog for all your commenters to see that you have refered them to as " rent a mouth "
donplaypuks® said...
ReplyDeleteChaptemockiller
Don lah be so kiasu busybody! What, got nothing better to do than reply for others?
Get a life bro! Blogging is a hobby, not a profession!
I wrote quotation from you:
donplaypuks®
Want to call a truce ? Me no kiasu busybody!
Blogging is a hobby, not a profession! Depends lah ! Malaysia Today , Susan Loone falls into which category ? hobby ? No Must be a mouth piece of somebody , how do you classify that ?
I never know you would stoop so low !
but claims he's a blogger. When did I ever claim I am a blogger ? I quoted from you !damn it !
Please go and have your eyes and head examined !