tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post915548213141595796..comments2024-03-29T13:53:27.554+08:00Comments on KTemoc Konsiders ........: Road to hellKTemochttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09951253039042572381noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-51147370996146222552012-11-17T22:27:10.633+08:002012-11-17T22:27:10.633+08:00KT, i did read your post carefully. you didnt read...KT, i did read your post carefully. you didnt read my comment in the same manner. You premised on political context (nurul) while mine is from a non-Muslim pov wrt OUR official religion, or to be precise, a Malaysian pov wrt OUR official religion. My question might have something to do with the current debate of Malaysia being a secular or not secular state.<br /><br />HuaYongnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-25246957154691309362012-11-17T18:08:10.331+08:002012-11-17T18:08:10.331+08:00HuaYong,
Regrettably you didn't read my post ...HuaYong,<br /><br />Regrettably you didn't read my post carefully/thoroughly. I did not say Steve Oh and others shouldn't express their opinions on issues affecting Malaysia and Malaysians per se.<br /><br />I only emphasized that whatever needs to be said should have and be in context. In other words, when Nurul is in shit with the ulamaks, it's hardly helpful for a non-Muslim to come out to say she's a great Muslim for effectively saying it's okay for a Muslim to leave Islam.<br /><br />CONTEXT or, as we are told by Ecclesiastes 3:1, ... To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven.KTemochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09951253039042572381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-18234814673193851422012-11-17T13:42:55.139+08:002012-11-17T13:42:55.139+08:00As they say, the road to hell is paved with good i...As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It may appear to be hellish for Nurul now but I believe that, like Rosa Parks, she and Siti Kassim would be instrumental in kick-starting the deliverance of the Malaysian Malays from the stifling hold of religion. <br /><br />One will never be truly free when one is not given the basic right to believe and disbelieve. As the Sudanese scholar Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na'im has said, “If I don’t have the freedom to disbelieve, I cannot believe.” No one could truly justify and reconcile the action of criminalising apostasy. It would indeed be a road to hell if there is no freedom to disbelieve. It would be a vicious cycle all the way until society breaks down. Of course, we cannot expect those in control to relinguish their hold on the Muslims in general and the Malays in particular. <br /><br />If only the Islamic authorities are more secure in their faith to get around this catch 22 situation and work towards creating an Ummah confident enough to allow true freedom of belief. Only then can Muslims truly profess the faith and recite the Syahadah with full conviction without any nagging thoughts that they are forced to. I look forward to the day when all Muslims are given that choice as all others have been given. When that day dawns, they would indeed be turning around and taking the stairway to Heaven.<br /><br />Adam.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-85327944914908151662012-11-17T13:21:34.121+08:002012-11-17T13:21:34.121+08:00ellese, good 'food for thought'. personall...ellese, good 'food for thought'. personally i doubt what a non Muslim opinion could help in issue like this when even muslim never share a common consensus. however my question is being malaysian, do steve oh were entitled to opine himself in matter relating to islam when we are not an entirely secular, and islam is our official religion where our daily lives and activity were shaped and affected by Islam?<br /><br />i dun have a stand yet, but i think some of the advice given by the likes of petra n kt is sort of contradiction, they expect the non malay / non muslim to move forward but not too forward, they trying to draw a line which they themselve are not clear where is the optimum point, thus opt and resort to criticise, i dont think this work. HuaYongnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-16116485462569122022012-11-16T23:20:03.107+08:002012-11-16T23:20:03.107+08:00Good write though you put too many points. I do no...Good write though you put too many points. I do not agree with you on all points but your analysis are respectable. Just one issue I think you've glossed over. You've mentioned that the apostacy issue is of Umno doing. I think this analysis is very shallow and miss the point. For non Muslims to understand, they must understand the Islamic epystymology is very different from secular epystymogy. In Islam everything emanates from the believe in god and thus the Quran Sunnah etc. It's from this basis we have treatises of hundreds of years old on this issue. The logical flow of thoughts emanates from here.<br />Thus In order to overcome apostacy issue, changing Umno will not resolve it. It must be argued based on the same epystymology which many don't grasp. In order to argue you say cannot simply pick judeo Christianity scriptures or argue on Kant, Locke, Hart etc. you must argue with the Islamic recognised sources and by reasoning you may may allude to those philisophical underpinning. The argument that the verse "there is no compulsion" applies to Muslims is too simplistic and lead to other inconsistencies. It would for example goes against the very grain of PAS raison dtre that apostacy is the highest crime in hudud. Steven oh is blinkered in this. Soo too many non Muslims who think there is no rational in this issue and thus like a cow being led by Umno. That's why simpleton argument like this does not help. It's a pure partisan statement. Take a step back. Understand and empathize. Once you do this you can understand and provide effective solutions.Ellesenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-91074111647744779682012-11-16T22:09:32.734+08:002012-11-16T22:09:32.734+08:00Anonymous 8:55 PM, November 16, 2012
You meant Ho...Anonymous 8:55 PM, November 16, 2012<br /><br />You meant Hotel Caliphfornia didn't you? <br /><br />:-)Capt Sudhirnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-43016069603707551402012-11-16T22:06:02.795+08:002012-11-16T22:06:02.795+08:00Change is the only constant in the universe. Human...Change is the only constant in the universe. Humanity has no choice but to reject ALL dogma's (in whatever form) that stifle the evolution of the species. All religion is man made and man manipulated for political purposes. <br /><br />Politics is the only human endeavour that exists solely to control another person's mind and no one can run away from it in this age and time. <br /><br />Each of us owes it to our next generations to speak up for the truth. Any claims of a revealed scripture must be backed up with empirical evidence and the onus of proving it is on the claimant not society as a whole. That is standard of measure we must set for ourself.<br /><br />So if I believe that Johnny Walker Black Label is the next Messiah I must provide empirical evidence to my claim if I want you to accept it. <br /><br />Failing that I can only imbibe the pleasures of a dry scotch in the company of like minded people, and the right for me to get drunk on my Messiah is solely mine. I don't have the right to make anyone else go through all the mind numbing experiences the morning after. <br /><br />Karl Mark was spot on when he said " Religion is an opiate for the masses". It makes a 21st century educated person believe that 7th century communal desert politics are relevant to us in this age and time.Capt Sudhirnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-87075821554387056622012-11-16T20:55:47.121+08:002012-11-16T20:55:47.121+08:00Ever heard the song about Hotel California ?
You c...Ever heard the song about Hotel California ?<br />You can check out but you can never leave ....that's Islam in Malaysia.<br />I had to settle in Australia to truly be rid of the suffocating religious noose. Even then, when I'm back in Malusia visiting my aged parents, I have to pretend to be still a Muslim. My parents know the truth , but I have no wish to embarrass them in front of others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-67636939844282353002012-11-16T20:39:11.164+08:002012-11-16T20:39:11.164+08:00Steve Oh sound like a borderline Anwarista.Steve Oh sound like a borderline Anwarista.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-6718044148422785642012-11-16T14:52:50.823+08:002012-11-16T14:52:50.823+08:00European start new era after 1516.
OTH, Bolehla...European start new era after 1516. <br /><br />OTH, Bolehland certain ethnics pave the road to de-evolution thanks to their emperor, no lesser degree than Mao during cultural revolution.<br />moothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01977564404841424612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-7815287283512798562012-11-16T11:28:16.771+08:002012-11-16T11:28:16.771+08:00steve oh / nurul are both master of psy-war.steve oh / nurul are both master of psy-war.HuaYongnoreply@blogger.com