tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post7600078903515974941..comments2024-03-29T18:56:50.302+08:00Comments on KTemoc Konsiders ........: The Islamization of MalaysiaKTemochttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09951253039042572381noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-88977388877422470242012-11-06T10:09:16.178+08:002012-11-06T10:09:16.178+08:00Malaysia is a hybrid Islamic/secular state. As the...Malaysia is a hybrid Islamic/secular state. As the constitution does not state clearly whether it is Islamic or secular, this open-ended status have led to politicians interpreting to their advantage. Malaysian Muslims are subject to Islamic laws in their daily lives, but not so the non-Muslims. For example, a man having 2 wives is breaking the law if he is non-Muslim, but is perfectly legal practice if he is a Muslim. Two opposite interpretations of the same thing. <br /><br />So it is not a case of either black or white concerning our status of secular or Islamic Malaysia.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-14735910966435210112012-11-06T00:36:49.379+08:002012-11-06T00:36:49.379+08:00Anon 1:14
The issue of Islamic state arose simply...Anon 1:14<br /><br />The issue of Islamic state arose simply because of PAS. In the future it will continue to dominate politics as its Pas' raison dtre. Umno Islamic state and dap secular state concepts are in substance the same.Ellese Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13791900100205630825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-44151794787817388382012-11-06T00:29:26.417+08:002012-11-06T00:29:26.417+08:00There's nothing creative here. I gave you vari...There's nothing creative here. I gave you various examples for official functions emblems and procession where we adopt Islam. Similarly with proceedings in parliament etc. That's one the most liberal<br />interpretation. The more strict interpretation is to adopt Islam as the law of the land interpretation like in some pre merdeka day reported cases. <br /><br />Just use a bit of sense and you know Syah's argument is gobbledygook. Ask your self what "religion of federation" means. Simple. <br /><br />Anyway no lawyer reading law will refer to Syah. There's many head of bar consti In the past but can't even recall one whose an aurhority. So check your sources.<br /><br />On castigating people's with different opinion, please look at your write. You talk down on people's integrity and intellectual ability when they opposed you. So stop calling a kettle black.<br /><br />Now don't divert. This is my second/third time asking similar question. How in the world that based on our constitution in particular article 3 can it be justified as secular separating state and religion? Ellese Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13791900100205630825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-70240337066626686422012-11-05T13:56:01.971+08:002012-11-05T13:56:01.971+08:00separation of State and Church means more than tha...separation of State and Church means more than that - it's not just the "negara" (state) that has the onus to KEEP OUT of and not meddle in religious matters but the Church is equally required to stay out of politics.<br /><br />Ideally, no religious order can form political parties or use religion as its platform, but unfortunately this is generally not enforced even in secular nations. Hypothetically if we enforce this, PAS and HINDRAF would be illegal.KTemochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09951253039042572381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-33309386159386807482012-11-05T13:14:14.660+08:002012-11-05T13:14:14.660+08:00In this secular or Islamic state argument, maybe y...In this secular or Islamic state argument, maybe you can take Helen Ang's criteria of a secular state :<br /><br />Sebuah negara sekular akan mempunyai ciri-ciri berikut:<br /><br />. Badan-badan keagamaan diasingkan daripada urusan negeri<br />(The separation of the religious orders from the state)<br /><br />. Negara bersikap neutral dalam hal-hal agama<br />(Neutrality of the state in religious matters)<br /><br />. Negara memberi layanan yang setara kepada setiap/semua agama<br />(Equal treatment by the state of different religions)<br /><br />. Agama adalah merupakan suatu perkara peribadi yang tidak bertindih dengan ruang awam<br />(Religion being a matter of the private sphere which is strictly separated from the public sphere)<br /><br />http://helenang.wordpress.com/2012/11/02/dap-menolak-sekularisme/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-91327958750811787942012-11-05T10:48:10.641+08:002012-11-05T10:48:10.641+08:00In an Islamic state, there shouldn't be a Gent...In an Islamic state, there shouldn't be a Gentings casino, horse race betting, 4D, beer breweries, alcoholic drinks freely available, bank interest for FD and savings etc isn't it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-40395320867920732982012-11-05T08:24:24.074+08:002012-11-05T08:24:24.074+08:00Is England a Christian State ? After all, they hav...Is England a Christian State ? After all, they have a Queen who is the Head of the State, the Head of the Armed Forces, and the Head of the Church of England.<br /><br />Malaysia was once colonised by the Brits and no prizes for guessing why our Constitutional Monarchy's duties and responsiblities (in the main) are strikingly similar to that of the Queen of England. And for 5 decades ever since independence our laws are that of the civil commonwealth laws. <br /><br />If we are an islamic state, we ought to be one right off in 1957 and our 2 former prime ministers wouldn't have stressed time and again we are a secular state. Just because Dr M for his own political conveniece announced unilaterally that it is an islamic state, does not automatically make our country an islamic state. During his time, he can get away with declaring anything and no one dares to dispute him; and even if any one dares to, there's no internet then......<br /><br />That is why today, there's a lot of discussion on this when the UMNO starts to raise this issue again what with the GE round the corner, because we now could just go to our computers to weigh in and there's lots of legal experts who could now freely give their views without needing to worry if they need to cool their heels in the Bamboo River.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-32675618779474465632012-11-04T20:01:03.725+08:002012-11-04T20:01:03.725+08:00First, you claimed Islam is the "official&quo...First, you claimed Islam is the "official" religion of Malaysia, hoping to get away with your "creativity". When I prove you incorrect by quoting Syahredan Johan you move away from your previous claim and attempt to diminish Syahredan's knowledge. Between him, the Bar Council constitutional law committee chief, and you, guess who I prefer to listen to.<br /><br />My other point is you should avoid using rude words to describe others' views. That's a loser's attitude.KTemochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09951253039042572381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-37339436062201457432012-11-04T18:42:23.924+08:002012-11-04T18:42:23.924+08:00You must be joking to quote Syahredzan. Please quo...You must be joking to quote Syahredzan. Please quote eminent jurists in constitutional law. For that matter can you quote one constitutional law book by Syahredzan.<br /><br />I'll take a layman approach. The argument you put forth is that we are secular separating state and religion. By quoting article 3 Of the federal constitution everyone can see that you're contradicting yourself already. This is before presenting articles on Islamic courts administration and jurisdiction. So let's put to rest the dumb argument that our constitution is secular in separating religion and state.<br /><br />Now let's go to the language of the constitution. I will not even touch the history behind this article. The venerable Tun Suffian said that based on the pre and post British era, "it's not therefore surprising when the constitution by article 3 provides that Islam is the religion of the state".<br /><br />I want everybody to use their own brains. In law every word has a meaning. Article 3 says "Islam is the religion of the federation but....."<br /><br />What does it mean by religion of the federation. Hmm !! the head of state must be the sultan who must necessarily be Islam. He is the protector of Islam in this country and our constitution make it impossible even if all reps are dap to amend this without their consent. Now how do we conduct his appointment as our king and head of state?. Can we adopt Islamic practices like doa and recitation in official appointment. What about the official emblems and insignias of our head of state and nation? Can we use Islamic crescent to signify him and Malaysia? Of course we can coz Islam is the religion of Malaysia. <br /><br />So just think lah a bit. Read proper books and history. Don't read rubbish TMI as a source. I can go on and on to show its not secular. And By the way please lah quote eminent jurists. Even then weved been trained to be critical. So don't give me this bull that I don't know my constitutional law. Argue me with the source and points and not by personality. Now tell me again what does it mean that "Islam is the religion of the federation"? <br />Ellese Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13791900100205630825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-91503277758121874312012-11-04T11:41:07.204+08:002012-11-04T11:41:07.204+08:00In my country, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, t...In my country, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, the constitution specifically says <br />"Islam is the Official religion of the Republic" <br />and <br />"No law or government regulation which is repugnant to Islam, the Holy Quran and the Sunnah shall be enacted" and "existing laws shall be aligned with the principles of Islam".<br />It also gives the defining authority whether any law or civil and government regulation/ action is contrary to Islam as the Federal Shariat Court.<br /><br />That is the true mark of an Islamic state.<br /><br />My country is a failed or failing state (depending on who you talk to). How much of it is a consequence of the strict Islamisation of all the entire government and national institutions is debatable, but I dare say it is definitely a factor.<br /><br />Malaysia is still a relatively prosperous country, and not yet on that self-destructive path which my country took. <br />Please, please learn from our mistakes...<br /><br />I am, by the way, a practicing Muslim who doesn't believe that religion is a workable basis for effective government.Pakistani KLitenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-32016568147249729362012-11-04T10:12:32.609+08:002012-11-04T10:12:32.609+08:00Kaytee,after a long absence I tuned in and find th...Kaytee,after a long absence I tuned in and find that you have gone to visit the polars.Now just out of curiosity to check if you have finally decided to settled at the Noth or South Pole,you are back again,and as usual old habits die hard.The very very long articles again.Nice to see you back again.Cheers.brunonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-88964229546244540302012-11-04T09:31:55.849+08:002012-11-04T09:31:55.849+08:00Ellese, you are incorrect in stating Malaysia'...Ellese, you are incorrect in stating Malaysia's official religion is Islam. Syahredran Johan, the Bar Council constitutional law committee chief, said that is a gross misinterpretation, pushed principally by Utusan Malaysia. The Constitution does <b>NOT</b> carry the word "official".<br /><br />I now quote from TMI http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/malaysia-has-no-official-religion-says-constitutional-expert<br /><br /><i>“In terms of the Federal Constitution, there’s only one religion for the federation, no official or unofficial. The Constitution is clear on this. Islam is not the official religion,” he said to The Malaysian Insider when contacted yesterday.<br /> <br />He cited Article 3 as stating “Islam is the religion of the Federation; but other religions may be practised in peace and harmony in any part of the Federation” and pointed out the word “official” was nowhere in the provision.<br /> <br />Syahredzan said that section of the constitution must be interpreted together with Article 11, which states “Everyone has the right to profess and practise his religion and, subject to Clause (4)’ — which is on Islam — ‘to propagate it’”.<br /> <br />“We need to understand the correct terminology to be used when we say anything about the Federal Constitution,” he said, and added “everyone, from ministers to NGOs to bloggers have been claiming all sorts, which goes to show they do not know what is in the Federal Constitution”.<br /> <br />He observed that by inserting the extra word into the Constitution, the bloggers, ministers and newspaper were reading things that are not there and changing the law.<br /> <br />“And that’s unconstitutional,” the lawyer insisted.</i><br /><br />Take his advice and not read into the Constitution what's <b>NOT</b> there, for your reading then becomes unconstitutional ;-)KTemochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09951253039042572381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-25402691930817764222012-11-04T07:03:55.324+08:002012-11-04T07:03:55.324+08:00It's funny that many called themselves Malaysi...It's funny that many called themselves Malaysians but don't even know our constitution. Our constitution is not secular separating state and religion. It not only recognize Islam as official religion but also recognize Islamic courts, administration and most importantly Islamic legal jurisdiction. Anyone who argues this is secular better do one basic thing: bloody read the constitution.<br />Whether we're Islamic state depends on the interpretation of Islamic state which has varied definition. One interpretation is that It fundamentally Requires the state to be governed by Muslims. Mahathir adopted this and called us Islamic State. In substance it's the same as DAP secular state. Both dap and bn here are ridiculously fighting over semantics.<br />The other definition of Islamic state is a state governed by Muslims and Islamic law in particular hudud as espoused by PAS. This is different from BN Islamic state and DAP Secular state.<br />But people are gullible partisan confused and afraid of the term Islamic. Thus we have many blinkered ignorant comments and write. <br />I think it's about time that those who are against Islamic state but support PAS to shut up. PAS will never give up this ideological issue. And don't write you're against bn conception of Islamic state because there's no difference with DAP definition of secular state. You can't say you object on one hand and at the same time push those who support your opposed views. You know you can put to rest this issue by not pushing for PAS. But because of power you're willing to compromise. And since you've compromised please shut up. Dahlah tak baca constitution but now object because of what you do. Enough.<br />Ps. Another thing is please don't relate non related items to Islamic state. What has doa and uniform to do with Islamic state. This issue will persists even under dap conception of secular states as its a Muslim observance. DAP has never argued its unconstitutional. Are you saying it is? What's your ground? Forget the Islamic state. Use our current constitution. Which provision does it infringe? If none, it has nothing to do with Islamic state.Ellese Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13791900100205630825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-78847588188941274962012-11-04T05:33:21.269+08:002012-11-04T05:33:21.269+08:00Will Malaysia join the Club of Doom ?
This outco...Will Malaysia join the Club of Doom ? <br /><br />This outcome of the coming GE13 is crucial for the future of this country. And the following 2 years after this election will be the years to watch closely....... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-64906765643468889762012-11-03T21:44:38.404+08:002012-11-03T21:44:38.404+08:00KT said "... And may the bells in the Hindu t...KT said "... And may the bells in the Hindu temples ring to remind us of that..."<br /><br />So there you have it - the reason for his regular postings showing his hatred of Anwar.<br /><br />It refers to the incident in Kampong Rawa in Penang some decades ago.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-79664360267645796142012-11-03T16:58:42.773+08:002012-11-03T16:58:42.773+08:00Absolute power, corrupt absolutely. All corrupted...Absolute power, corrupt absolutely. All corrupted using the name of religion, nationalism, patriotism. <br /><br /><br />Or wait, can you find the Malay word equivalent to corruption? Nope.<br /><br />OTH, Indonesian scholar discover deficiency in Malay language to describe corruption,thus they coin the word "Korupsi". And Bolehland "scholar" still refuse admit corruption within the culture, and continue buried their head inside the sand.<br />moothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01977564404841424612noreply@blogger.com