tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post2666426991411714995..comments2024-03-28T22:45:25.910+08:00Comments on KTemoc Konsiders ........: Lina Joy - both sides should re-examine themselvesKTemochttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09951253039042572381noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-61773499434567700212007-06-08T16:08:00.000+08:002007-06-08T16:08:00.000+08:00juslo, you've not only shown an intolerance to my ...juslo, you've not only shown an intolerance to my views but you've the effontery to tell a blogger to shut up in his OWN blog!!!<BR/><BR/>Just coz you informed me of your views, you deemed it mandatory that I obey you and not blog any more on something you consider as not to your liking/inclination.<BR/><BR/>I've been extraordinarily courteous to you, allowing to spam your goods here; the least I can expect is for you to extend the same courtesy especially when you visit my "house".<BR/><BR/>You have presumptously closed off the only avenue left to her with your woes of calamity awaiting her.<BR/><BR/>Though I would be the last person to tell you, maybe you should consider clamming up.<BR/><BR/>You're coming across as a party with vested interest and biased intolerance with your astonishing discourtesy.KTemochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09951253039042572381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-24418716980164818682007-06-08T15:11:00.000+08:002007-06-08T15:11:00.000+08:00only 1 simple question:DO SUCH 'LAWS AND PROCEDURE...only 1 simple question:<BR/><BR/>DO SUCH 'LAWS AND PROCEDURES' TO LEAVE ISLAM *******REALLY EXIST******* IN THE SYARIAH COURT, OR WOULD YOU BE LOCKED UP INSTEAD?<BR/><BR/>y is it so hard for muslims to give a straight answer to that?<BR/><BR/>do YOU have the answer to that question, KT, seems u've been pandering to the conservative muslims again n again on the lina joy decision?<BR/><BR/>DO YOU?????<BR/><BR/>IF U DON'T, I SUGGEST U JUST SHUT UP, FOR THE GOOD OF YOUR OWN CREDIBILITY, MATE.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-72435439280831102322007-06-08T15:06:00.000+08:002007-06-08T15:06:00.000+08:00i agree with anon at 11:30 AM, June 08, 2007.i thi...i agree with anon at 11:30 AM, June 08, 2007.<BR/><BR/>i think many oppose that decision bcos sending lina joy to the syariah court is basically sending her to incriminate herself, like what the minority judge says.<BR/><BR/>there r MANY EXPLICIT criminal laws punishing anybody who claims to want to quit islam (n may well catch the lawyer for the apostate too), but on the other hand there r NO CLEAR provisions allowing a muslim to become an apostate. <BR/><BR/>some have claimed that there r ways to do it at the syariah court, n u won't get prosecuted if u apply to b an apostate, but i have yet to read the EXPRESS provisions allowing apostasy.<BR/><BR/>or at the very least, EXPLICIT GUARANTEE that any apostate who really go to the syariah court to apply to b an apostate will NOT b prosecuted.<BR/><BR/>most r NOT 'bashing' islam n muslims as u said. most would b happy to support that decision PROVIDED going to the syariah court is REALLY going to work n she won't get arrested n put in 'concentration camp'. <BR/><BR/>i've written on this: (advert again...)<BR/><BR/>Lina Joy - Malaysian Islamists Won the Battle But Losing the War?<BR/>http://juslo.blogspot.com/2007/06/lina-joy-malaysian-islamists-won-battle.html<BR/><BR/><BR/>See criminal laws such as these:<BR/><BR/>SYARIAH OFFENCES ENACTMENT (MELAKA STATE) 19916/1991 <BR/><BR/>PART IV: OTHER OFFENCES<BR/><BR/>Section 66 - Trying of Apostasy.<BR/><BR/>(1) Whenever a Muslim deliberately, by conduct or word or whatever other way, admit to want to leave Islam or declares himself to be non-Muslim, then the [Syariah] Court shall, if satisfied that that person has done something which could be interpreted as has tried to change iktikad (faith) and belief in Islam whether it is by his own admission or conduct, make order so that the person is detained in Pusat Bimbingan Islam (Islamic Guidance/Rehabilitation Center) for a period not more than 6 months for the purpose of education and such person be requested to repent in accordance with Hukum Syarak.<BR/><BR/>(2) If any person who has been ordered so that is detained under subsection (1) -<BR/><BR/>(a) repents immediately, the [Syariah] Court shall, after confirming his repent, free that person; or<BR/><BR/>(b) if that person at any time during detention has repented, the Observing Officer shall report the matter to the [Syariah] Court and the Court shall call that person and after confirming his repent, shall make an order to free him.<BR/><BR/>(3) The Observing Officer shall send a progress report about that person being detained to the Syariah Court every week.<BR/><BR/>(4) The Islamic Guidance/Rehabilitation Center shall be gazetted as a detention centre.<BR/><BR/><BR/>And these:<BR/><BR/>SYARIAH CRIMES ENACTMENT (PERAK STATE) 19923/1992 <BR/><BR/>PART IV: OFFENCES RELATING TO THE HONOUR OF THE RELIGION AND ITS INSTITUTIONS<BR/><BR/>Section 13 - Act or word of Apostasy.<BR/><BR/>A Muslim who deliberately, whether by conduct or word or whatever other way, admits wants to leave Islam or declares himself as a non-Muslim is committing an offence offending Islam and shall, when found guilty, be given punishment of fine not more than RM3,000.00 or jail for for a period not more than 2 years or both together.<BR/><BR/>[### Perak has no qualm about calling it jail instead of 'education'. The frankness is commendable! ###]<BR/><BR/><BR/>And also these:<BR/><BR/>Takfir. <BR/><BR/>(1) Depends on subsection (2), any person who says or indicate by words, whether verbal or written, or by sign or picture, or by any act, activity or conduct, or by organizing, promoting or create any activity or otherwise by any way, that any person professing Islam or people who are categorized in any group, entity or description of people who profess Islam- <BR/><BR/>(a) is a kafir/unbeliever; <BR/><BR/>(b) no longer profess Islam; <BR/><BR/>(c) should not be accepted, or could not be accepted, as professing Islam; or<BR/><BR/>(d) do not believe, follow, profess or group within, Islam, <BR/>is committing an offence and when found guilty can be fined not more than RM5,000.00 or jailed for a period not more than 3 years or both together. <BR/><BR/>(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to -<BR/><BR/>(a) any which is done by any [Syariah?] Court or religious authority created, formed or appointed or under any written law and is given power to make or issue any decision regarding any matter related to Islam; and <BR/><BR/>(b) any which is done by any person according to or following any decision made or issued by the [Syariah?] Court or any such authority, whether the decision is written or if written, whether it is published in the Gazette.<BR/><BR/>*** Found, in similar wordings, in at least:<BR/><BR/><BR/>ENAKMEN KESALAHAN JENAYAH SYARIAH (TAKZIR) (TERENGGANU) 20017/2001, BAHAGIAN II KESALAHAN YANG BERHUBUNGAN DENGAN 'AQIDAH, Seksyen 38<BR/><BR/>ENAKMEN JENAYAH SYARIAH (SELANGOR) 19959/1995, BAHAGIAN II KESALAHAN YANG BERHUBUNGAN DENGAN 'AQIDAH, Seksyen 6 <BR/><BR/>JOHOR ENAKMEN KESALAHAN JENAYAH SYARIAH 19974/1997, BAHAGIAN V KESALAHAN PELBAGAI, Seksyen 31 <BR/><BR/>KEDAH ENAKMEN KANUN JENAYAH SYARIAH 19889/1988, BAHAGIAN II KESALAHAN-KESALAHAN, Seksyen 24<BR/><BR/>-------------------------<BR/><BR/>so, KT, r these the so-called 'laws and procedures' mentioned by the Chief Justice, which u've again & again urged Lina Joy to follow???!!! <BR/><BR/>would YOU have gone to syariah court with all those laws pointing at u?????<BR/><BR/>put yourselve in her shoes. open your eyes. then, u'll realise what a big LIE the majority judges have told us.<BR/><BR/>-- note that just because you have BEEN fined, jailed and 'educated' under these criminal provisions does NOT mean that the Syariah Court will therefore give you an apostasy order.<BR/><BR/>the truth is, there is NO SUCH 'avenue', 'laws' or 'procedures' available for lina joy to convert out!!!<BR/><BR/>i've raised this point in your last post, but u seem to have conveniently turned a blind eye.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-7096771597534175952007-06-08T14:18:00.000+08:002007-06-08T14:18:00.000+08:00Hi, I think the example given of the author going ...Hi, I think the example given of the author going to the church office for an administrative issue is entirely different from Lina Joy's case. Going to an office is not the same as going to court. Having read the original article in Malaysiakini, the author went to the Church office for coupons. When the author went to the office, he was in no way subjecting himself to Christian laws and religious authority. In this case, the church was not acting in the context of religion, but rather charity. <BR/><BR/>Also, the author has totally missed the point of the Lina Joy case. Her not going to the Syariah court is not that she's afraid it will make her any less a Christian. But it's a matter of (1) jurisdiction of the court and (2) and the self-incrimination if she were go to the Syariah court.<BR/><BR/>In other words, would he have still gone to the church office for the coupons if by law it's stated that the church can give the coupons only to Christians and thus, by going there, he is acknowledging himself as a Christian. Also, would he still go if by going, he is in high risk of jail time and/or a large fine? <BR/><BR/>Thus, we can see that the author's analogy just doesn't hold.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-47148916698003479762007-06-08T11:30:00.000+08:002007-06-08T11:30:00.000+08:00It is more than an admin matter for Lina Joy to si...It is more than an admin matter for Lina Joy to simply go to the syariah court to get permission for changing her religion. Everyone knows that the syariah court will straight away send a murtad like her for "rehabilitation" at the centre in Ulu Yam and that would be the end of her quest.SO IT IS SENSIBLE FOR LINA JOY not to do so to incriminate herself. Don't expect any justice or compassion from the syariah court. Look what they did to separate Marimuthu and his children from his wife on the dubious grounds that she is a Muslim. Lina Joy should just leave the country to practise the religion she chooses rather than to have Islam imposed on her by force to cause her untold misery just to fulfil the political ambitions of UMNO and PAS.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-62926318039641579732007-06-08T10:51:00.000+08:002007-06-08T10:51:00.000+08:00The Perak Mufti had set into motion a seditious ac...The Perak Mufti had set into motion a seditious action based on lies which could have resulted in inter-religious inter-ethnic violence. Was his irresponsibility not malicious and evil, especially more so of a man in high socio-religious responsibility?<BR/><BR/>His notorious track record had strongly indicated his irresponsibility was not a one-of.KTemochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09951253039042572381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-73071829967407027192007-06-08T10:45:00.000+08:002007-06-08T10:45:00.000+08:00I am chinese , my father converted to Islam . I am...I am chinese , my father converted to Islam . I am force to follow. But now I am over 21 years old .<BR/>I still cannot change my religion why? Is it what Malaysia practise freedom of religion ? Is this what the contituency guarantees . If I go to syariah court . 3 years + 5000 fine - is this freedom ?<BR/>I hope the Prime Minister can seriously look in to this matter. It is unfair to others.jr66307210https://www.blogger.com/profile/12112483821425938154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-60927586931264142692007-06-08T10:00:00.000+08:002007-06-08T10:00:00.000+08:00I agree , the mufti of Perak must be punished for ...I agree , the mufti of Perak must be punished for slander , and making mockery of himself and islam . Every religion on this earth is based on mere ' belief " factor of individuals.And no one can proof that their belief is true as all religion has hundred and one mystery beyond man's imagination.Lets not play god here......Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-10386653159941886302007-06-08T09:30:00.000+08:002007-06-08T09:30:00.000+08:00The Sariah Court has no legal powers over a Non-Mu...The Sariah Court has no legal powers over a Non-Muslim. Only a person who claims to be a muslim can appear in Sariah court, so its the Case of Chicken and Egg.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11109306.post-16975976833287431862007-06-08T09:21:00.000+08:002007-06-08T09:21:00.000+08:00The Perak Mufti has his 'problems' but for you to ...The Perak Mufti has his 'problems' but for you to degrade him as evil is downright unfair.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com